All schools are closing; by end July

Lupus

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Messages
26,646
Exactly, no work no pay should be applied. To easy to say close schools when you know you still getting income.
This is it, and they say oh but what about the teachers who do online school and such. Where? I've seen a few public schools that have done nothing since June.
 

Lia83

Active Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Messages
82
I am not ok with schools closing down again.

My daughter is in Grade 12. She has looked forward to her last year in School so much as I believe all Grade 12's did. There were non stop talking, working and planning for their Matric farewell. Lots of Internet browsing looking at dresses, hairstyles, make up and nails. Very excited chatter every afternoon when she got home, so much so that it drove me up the wall. And I thought I could talk.

Then " ****" happened.

Oh... How I wish for that chatter in the afternoons again. She has become quiet. Depressed. Unhappy. And the list goes on.... As a parent it breaks my heart. They are only 6 in Grade 12. All girls.☺ They had so many dreams and expectations. So much to look forward to and in the blink of an eye EVERYTHING changed.

She loves school. Always have. She has also been diagnosed with ADD, but inspite of that she excelled. Because she was where she loved it most...At school!!!

I saw her struggling and I could only pray.. She missed school. She missed her friends..She missed her teachers.

Everyday that went by the struggle became worse..I spent more time on my knees than I ever had..

Then school opened again. My prayers were answered. Her excitement had no bounds. Slowly she "almost"became her old self...Slowly but surely we were getting there..

And then last night happened.. Although they are not closing for long, I could see the reaction on her face. And I can not even begin to imagine what goes on in her mind...

Off course it is not only affecting her.. It is affecting me in ways I cant even begin to comprehend.. Physically and Mentally.

I have already paid her school fees in advance, including the final excams, Matric Farewell etc. I have financially planned for this....What if they scrap this school year and they have to do it again???

The IMPLICATIONS wil be enormous..

What I have not planned for was what it would do and continue to do to my child..Our children. All children and us as Parents...

This is a catch 22 situation..

We'll be damned if we do and damned if we don't...

"He who kneels before God, can stand before anything".
 

Fulcrum29

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
35,263
How will the courts act?


DA to approach courts to keep nation’s schools open
The Democratic Alliance (DA) strongly opposes the decision by President Ramaphosa to close the nation’s public schools for four weeks. We will be approaching the courts, on the basis that it is politically rather than scientifically motivated and not in the best interests of South Africa’s 14 million schoolchildren.

The decision to close the nation’s schools for four weeks is irrational based on the available evidence which is that schools do not expose learners and staff to higher levels of risk than other places. Indeed, to quote Basic Education Minister Angie Motshekga from her statement yesterday following the President’s announcement: “It is important to bear in mind that the latest opinions of the Ministerial Advisory Committee (MAC), medical and science experts, is that learners are better at school than in communities and homes where the infections are actually taking place.”
The ANC government has refused to open the MAC’s advisories to public scrutiny, precisely because the government’s decisions go against the advice of scientists. Professor Shabir Madhi, who serves on the MAC, confirmed yesterday that government had not taken their advice that schools should not be closed. He said: “I think it’s a case of government deciding to take advice from the unions, rather than from the scientists, because the scientific community has been pretty uniform that there is very little reason to close the schools. The opening of the schools has got very little to do with the transmission of the virus and if anything, the closure of the schools is going to do more harm than good.”

Another MAC member, Professor Glenda Gray, confirmed that the decision contradicted their advice and went against the scientific evidence, saying “We believed that it was the best thing for children to be at school because we do not believe that Covid-19 infection poses a risk to their health.”

The decision to close schools is rather a result of the ANC capitulating to all-powerful teachers’ unions, in particular SADTU, who do not have the best interests of learners at heart. In bowing to this threatening interest group – a crucial component of the ANC’s political support base – the ANC is trampling on children’s constitutional right to education, which recognises that education is fundamentally important to a child’s health, food security, future earnings and safety.

The DA will not let children become another political football in the ANC’s game to entrench their power and access to state resources in the face of dwindling popular support due to their failure to deliver a better life for all.
Not only MAC advisors but also both the South African Paediatric Association and the American Association of Paediatricians have come out in strong support of schools being open. The latter cites “mounting evidence” that transmission of the coronavirus by young children is uncommon, partly because they are less likely to contract it in the first place.

Governing body associations, NGOs and medical specialists have argued to keep schools open, but these arguments have been swept aside on a wave of political expediency.

In the Western Cape, there is no evidence of mass spreading of the virus at schools. Indeed, not a single learner death has been reported to the Western Cape Education Department and covid mortality among the province’s teachers, at 0.07%, is not higher than for other essential workers. Over half of Western Cape schools have not reported a single positive case, and of those that have, the majority (72.4%) have only reported one or two cases at their school. Furthermore, it should be remembered that a case reported by a school does not necessarily mean that the individual was infected at the school.

In fact, organisations monitoring Western Cape schools have commented that learners practice better physical distancing and hygiene measures at school than they do outside school in the surrounding community (where they may be unsupervised as parents are at work).

The DA’s position remains that those parents who choose to keep their children out of school should be allowed to do so. Staff members who choose to stay home must accept a salary cut. If this were the case, it is doubtful that unions would be calling so loudly for schools to close.

The cost to closing schools is profound and will be borne by children and families for many years. Many children will drop out of school never to return, and many more will fall so far behind that they are never able to catch up. Inequality in our society will increase, as poorer families are not able to provide any at-home learning, while more resourced families will naturally do whatever is possible to continue their children’s education even while schools are closed.

Closing schools increases the risk of children – especially those from poorer families – being left home alone while parents are forced to return to work to sustain the family. Furthermore, surveys show that school closures raise levels of substance abuse, depression, fear, loneliness, domestic violence, and child abuse. Schools will be vandalized. As education is compromised, so poverty will go up, along with the suffering and loss of life that accompanies that. Let us be under no illusion: poverty kills.

The decision to close schools underscores the ANC’s indifference to the fate of South Africa’s children. It comes not even a week after the Pretoria High Court found that the basic education minister and the eight ANC provincial education heads had breached their constitutional duty by freezing the school feeding scheme. Schools closures will have a serious impact on the nutrition of vulnerable children, 2.5 million of whom experienced hunger even before the lockdown. Even if the schools feeding programme continues in line with the court order, many learners will not be able to get to school to collect food, especially in very rural communities.

After four weeks of school closures, the virus will still be there and infections will still be rising in some provinces. What happens then? Do we succumb meekly to extensions, even as government keeps on failing to build testing or treatment capacity?

In the Western Cape, infections are falling, so the government’s specious reasoning that schools should be closed because infections are rising does not apply to that province in any case, yet government has made no exception for the over one million learners there.

The ANC has targeted the nation’s schools for closure even as taxis are allowed to operate at full capacity and gatherings of up to 50 adults are allowed for funerals and religious services. This is not science, it’s politics.
Instead of an education and a bright future, the ANC is bequeathing our children debt, hunger, and ignorance. The DA will fight this every step of the way.
It would be sad to see the court dismiss this in terms with urgency... then it is all the way to the ConCourt. I don't believe anyone would wish to preside over this case, no ruling will be popular, but only one ruling will be in terms with our basic rights. In the case, the court denies the DA's application or don't agree with the merits then I would appreciate them to call on the NCC to present them with the science which should be the case either way.
 

ponder

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Joined
Jan 22, 2005
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83,880
It would be sad to see the court dismiss this in terms with urgency... then it is all the way to the ConCourt. I don't believe anyone would wish to preside over this case, no ruling will be popular, but only one ruling will be in terms with our basic rights. In the case, the court denies the DA's application or don't agree with the merits then I would appreciate them to call on the NCC to present them with the science which should be the case either way.
Well there's already a court ruling that private schools can open.

Then there's,
"It is important to bear in mind that the latest opinions of the Ministerial Advisory Committee (MAC), medical and science experts, is that learners are better at school than in communities and homes where the infections are actually taking place" - Basic Education Minister Angie Motshekga, 2020/07/23
 

Fulcrum29

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Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
35,263

/snipped

Figuring out what the WHO is really saying about schools and the pandemic
A careful reading of the World Health Organisation’s policy documents shows that it does not stipulate when schools should reopen.

The World Health Organisation (WHO) has played a vital role in evaluating evidence on Covid-19 and coordinating global efforts to limit the harm of the pandemic. Unfortunately, statements by the WHO’s Michael Ryan seem to have created the incorrect impression that the WHO is advising countries not to reopen schools while cases and deaths are on the rise. Ryan’s statements should be viewed in the context of the press briefing and the WHO’s official documents.

The WHO has emphasised continually that while it is firm on key principles, countries themselves need to carefully assess their local contexts when making decisions. Nowhere in its official documents does it state at what point in a country’s Covid-19 trajectory specific decisions in relation to schools must be taken.

The WHO endorses the medical evidence that transmission of the virus by children is low and explains that this fact must influence decisions around schools. An advisory released in May 2020 concludes that infections among learners and teachers would be due largely to transmissions occurring outside the school and classroom. Moreover, the WHO has endorsed studies that have shown that closing schools is an exceptionally weak “non-pharmaceutical intervention” to reduce the spread of the virus, just as reopening schools is a weak facilitator of increased infections, relative to measures such as allowing businesses to operate.

...


Teachers and parents in South Africa do, of course, have reasons to be concerned. Of these eight developing countries, only Egypt, which reopened schools on 7 June 2020, has reached a level of deaths comparable to South Africa’s. For schools to operate in a context where deaths are high and rising, is frightening. But this must be weighed against the costs to children of not receiving school meals, of losing out on learning and of not being cared for while caregivers are at work. These are the socio-economic costs the WHO insists should be taken into account when decisions are made.

Unlike in Kenya, which has closed schools for the remainder of 2020, in South Africa, children depend very heavily on school meals for their nutrition. In fact, in the region, it is precisely those countries with extensive school nutrition programmes which have opened their schools earliest. In South Africa, school meals have become especially important in a context where the ability of households to feed children has worsened during the pandemic, according to the recently run Coronavirus Rapid Mobile (CRAM) survey.

Estimates of learning losses I worked on for CRAM suggest that current disruptions could lead to below-expected outcomes in Grade 12 to as far as 2031, which would be devastating for skills generation. Children presently in the lower primary grades are likely to suffer especially serious long-term consequences. If foundational skills are not built up at the appropriate age, remediation at later Grades becomes almost impossible.

We should bear in mind that learning in schools does not work in neat packages of whole academic years. Learning is a delicate and continuous process, meaning that even a year with some interruptions is far better than prolonged and blanket school closures.

The WHO’s official documents, rather than one-minute video clips from its press briefings, should be considered its essential advice to countries. Ryan’s comments are, in fact, not aimed at South Africa, Egypt, Indonesia or any other developing country attempting to minimise disruptions to schooling while a protracted pandemic unfolds.

Given the timing and context of Ryan’s comments, they appear to be primarily directed at the fragmented and overly politicised policy response of the US, a country whose context and challenges are daunting, yet very different to our own. DM/MC
The article gives a good indication, but I see the author hasn't linked to the WHO's recommendations (or considerations). Those recommendations are a better guideline which even the layman can understand.

He is right that Michael Ryan's public statements have been nitpicked.
 

InternetSwag

Expert Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2012
Messages
3,319
Can someone please explain to me, what exactly closing schools for 2-4 weeks will accomplish?
The hard lockdown was 5 weeks and even that did nothing in the long run.
2 weeks? 2 weeks is nothing.
If I had a kid I'd keep them at home till this **** it over.
 

MightyQuin

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Oct 6, 2010
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Will the teacher be paid?
How long do you motivate a kid to do online classes when it doesn’t mean anything?
What?? Why does it "not mean anything"? What are the current, available alternatives?

My kids did online classes provided by their teachers at considerable affort during the initial lockdown and it kept them up to date and on top of their work.

They even wrote online assessment tests set up by the school and did excellent.

When they got back to school, some revision was done and then they started writing their 2nd batch of assessments, during which they also did brilliantly.

And this is a not a private school either...
 

MightyQuin

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Well there's already a court ruling that private schools can open.

Then there's,
"It is important to bear in mind that the latest opinions of the Ministerial Advisory Committee (MAC), medical and science experts, is that learners are better at school than in communities and homes where the infections are actually taking place" - Basic Education Minister Angie Motshekga, 2020/07/23
Our school is just closed for 2 weeks for a holiday, and then everybody is going back.

Guess were lucky to be in a school where the teachers and management know what they are doing and their sole focus is on education...
 

NeonNinja

Neon Resident
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
21,800
Can someone please explain to me, what exactly closing schools for 2-4 weeks will accomplish?
The hard lockdown was 5 weeks and even that did nothing in the long run.
2 weeks? 2 weeks is nothing.
If I had a kid I'd keep them at home till this **** it over.
Psychology.
 

ToxicBunny

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Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
91,072
Can someone please explain to me, what exactly closing schools for 2-4 weeks will accomplish?
The hard lockdown was 5 weeks and even that did nothing in the long run.
2 weeks? 2 weeks is nothing.
If I had a kid I'd keep them at home till this **** it over.
It's called giving in to the unions... It's not actually meant to achieve anything.
 

Mila

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Nov 11, 2008
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53,276
What?? Why does it "not mean anything"? What are the current, available alternatives?

My kids did online classes provided by their teachers at considerable affort during the initial lockdown and it kept them up to date and on top of their work.

They even wrote online assessment tests set up by the school and did excellent.

When they got back to school, some revision was done and then they started writing their 2nd batch of assessments, during which they also did brilliantly.

And this is a not a private school either...
What I mean is.
I was a teenager.
A sulky stubborn teenager.
Now some teachers continue classes.
I know its not going to mean that when we go back to ,whatever it is we go back to, the department is not going to say oh you guys that pitched up can move along. They are going to make you do it again.

That is what I’m asking. If some public schools ( maybe just some subjects) continue online, will it be recognized. And if not how do you get a kid to do it and stay motivated.

If I read what the Department of basic education is saying , I understand that they want to stop all education to keep everyone behind. Not just those who can not study online.

As an adult I understand that if i do this now and are made to repeat it later I might do better or have time to relax when that happens.
But I’m also still that teenager.
I know I would say Fukkit, i wing it anyway why sit and do this if i can play animal crossing.

So your kids are super motivated, but I was in school with kids whose parents would not have been able to give them the internet to go online and Have classes. Not every kids parents can afford this and the longer this goes on the less important internet is vs food.
Imagine knowing you will not be going to varsity anyway so this effort is for nothing.


But I’m not good with words so I might not be explaining myself well.
I’m also a bit of a rebel and still a bit upstream i can hardly sit stil as an adult. I was terrible as a teenager and child.
 

MightyQuin

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What I mean is.
I was a teenager.
A sulky stubborn teenager.
Now some teachers continue classes.
I know its not going to mean that when we go back to ,whatever it is we go back to, the department is not going to say oh you guys that pitched up can move along. They are going to make you do it again.

That is what I’m asking. If some public schools ( maybe just some subjects) continue online, will it be recognized. And if not how do you get a kid to do it and stay motivated.

If I read what the Department of basic education is saying , I understand that they want to stop all education to keep everyone behind. Not just those who can not study online.

As an adult I understand that if i do this now and are made to repeat it later I might do better or have time to relax when that happens.
But I’m also still that teenager.
I know I would say Fukkit, i wing it anyway why sit and do this if i can play animal crossing.

So your kids are super motivated, but I was in school with kids whose parents would not have been able to give them the internet to go online and Have classes. Not every kids parents can afford this and the longer this goes on the less important internet is vs food.
Imagine knowing you will not be going to varsity anyway so this effort is for nothing.


But I’m not good with words so I might not be explaining myself well.
I’m also a bit of a rebel and still a bit upstream i can hardly sit stil as an adult. I was terrible as a teenager and child.
What is the current schooling situation with your children?
 

RedViking

Nord of the South
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Feb 23, 2012
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29,971
I wonder how many years setback this will cause to the so called "disadvantaged". I mean some kids or even some schools now only leave school when they in their 20's. The psychological impact and will to be educated won't be a couple of months setback, this is going to result in years of setback. Nevermind the home circumstances, which will see the poor who managed to build some kind of "wealth" being sent back into extreme poverty.

But we know what this is really about.


R. I. P.
 

noxibox

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Apr 6, 2005
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Children presently in the lower primary grades are likely to suffer especially serious long-term consequences. If foundational skills are not built up at the appropriate age, remediation at later Grades becomes almost impossible.
I wish someone would hammer this into the heads of those in government making these decisions. Not just around their idiotic, backward phased return, but in general.

What I mean is.
I was a teenager.
A sulky stubborn teenager.
Now some teachers continue classes.
I know its not going to mean that when we go back to ,whatever it is we go back to, the department is not going to say oh you guys that pitched up can move along. They are going to make you do it again.

That is what I’m asking. If some public schools ( maybe just some subjects) continue online, will it be recognized. And if not how do you get a kid to do it and stay motivated.
At private school they proceed as though everyone attended the online lessons, because no-one had any excuse for not attending and doing their weekly projects. I'd assume the more affluent state schools do the same. I also expect that in the higher quality schools the teachers use their discretion. So they can make a plan around those who genuinely couldn't attend online classes while also allowing everyone else to keep moving forward. In the case of those who could have attended, but didn't bother the right policy is to tell them they'll have to make a plan to catch up, because the rest of us are moving forward.

As an adult I understand that if i do this now and are made to repeat it later I might do better or have time to relax when that happens.
As an adult I know repeating it would probably be boring, so I'd be less motivated to do it earlier if I knew they were going to repeat it. I suppose you have to know your teachers and school.

The key point is that no matter what they do the unions and state education bureaucrats can't drag everyone down to the same level. It will be, just as with the extended lockdown and the braindead phased return, the most vulnerable children who suffer the consequences. What's truly bizarre to me is the extent of support for closing schools amongst the lowest income earners. It just shows how little they value education and why their children will end up just like them, earning maybe a couple of thousand Rand a month.
 

Kosmik

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Sep 21, 2007
Messages
20,996
I will educate my kids as I see fit in this time but refuse to keep paying for education not delivered. That disconnect is ridiculous.
 
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