'Allow no escapes': leak exposes reality of China's vast prison camp network

[rambo919]

Not anymore, but the times of the crusades bear testament otherwise. I would also like to point out how the vatican happens to still exist as a psuedo independent city-state with a very separate religious-political control system. And lastly how the christian faith is actually quite splintered with different variety, catholic, dutch reformed, methodist, etc. There is an entire separate grouping that was created because one king wanted to divorce and remarry.

Catholicism is a African cult that eventually took over political power from the Roman empire as it collapsed.... it's not Christian and not the "one true church" despite all it's wild claims.

There was never one unified organized Christian church, ever. Splintering or corruption as soon as an organized form with delusions of unique anointment crystallizes is inevitable due to it's inherent need to return to it's grass roots organic core.

With the reformation Calvin also tried utopia, it was a gigantic evil failure.

The crusades were only religious at face level and for propaganda purposes, in actual fact it was completely political/tribal.

 

[Nanfeishen]

Yes, the government has burned Bibles, demolished churches and arrested Christians and put them in camps. Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

The Roman Catholics on the other hand have made a deal with China and they are left alone. In other words they sold out.

If you dig a bit further you will find it is the "shout it out loud" brigade that normally gets into trouble with the authorities. Missionary's , evangalists etc etc.
Existing Christian churches arent interfered with, however establishing new one's is almost impossible and if a new one is established it is closed down.
It is illegal to try and convert a person to religion in China. If people choose to follow a religion they may, however try and convert or convince someone that your belief is superior in any way and off you go.

 

[rambo919]

If you dig a bit further you will find it is the "shout it out loud" brigade that normally gets into trouble with the authorities. Missionary's , evangalists etc etc.
Existing Christian churches arent interfered with, however establishing new one's is almost impossible and if a new one is established it is closed down.
It is illegal to try and convert a person to religion in China. If people choose to follow a religion they may, however try and convert or convince someone that your belief is superior in any way and off you go.

Actually you have it a bit backwards here, the churches that are not interfered with are the one's that are essentially nothing more than clubs who are told what to believe, they are showpieces of "government benevolence" but they are dead spiritually.

EDIT: you are also defending the demolishing of churches...... would you also I wonder defend the demolishing of mosques because they were "shout it out loud"?

 

[konfab]

Communists running re-education gulags?

I

AM
M

SHOCKED
H
O
C
K
E
D

 

[ToxicBunny]

Yes, the government has burned Bibles, demolished churches and arrested Christians and put them in camps. Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

The Roman Catholics on the other hand have made a deal with China and they are left alone. In other words they sold out.

Oh I am more asking than saying he's talking kak... Its just news to me given that the Chinese have a form of freedom of religion in their Constitution but it does seem largely state sponsored religion and Protestant and Catholic specifically.

And I do see a reference to a recent church being demolished, but of course its said it was demolished because it was built without permits....

 

[MrGray]

It is only the west that has any sentimentality about preserving their own religious and ethnic majority identity.

 

[rambo919]

Oh I am more asking than saying he's talking kak... Its just news to me given that the Chinese have a form of freedom of religion in their Constitution but it does seem largely state sponsored religion and Protestant and Catholic specifically.

And I do see a reference to a recent church being demolished, but of course its said it was demolished because it was built without permits....

So you are surprised that a communist government ignores it's constitution or rewrites it as is needed? That it captures all news sources?

 

[Nanfeishen]

Actually you have it a bit backwards here, the churches that are not interfered with are the one's that are essentially nothing more than clubs who are told what to believe, they are showpieces of "government benevolence" but they are dead spiritually.

EDIT: you are also defending the demolishing of churches...... would you also I wonder defend the demolishing of mosques because they were "shout it out loud"?

They are not told what to believe, they are told what they can and cannot do regarding preaching and attempted converting of others to those beliefs. Which is as it should be. Free choice to attend or not, free choice to join or not.

I have absolutely no stake in the religous game, so couldnt care less what they demolish or dont demolish.

 

[rambo919]

They are not told what to believe, they are told what they can and cannot do regarding preaching and attempted converting of others to those beliefs. Which is as it should be. Free choice to attend or not, free choice to join or not.

I have absolutely no stake in the religous game, so couldnt care less what they demolish or dont demolish.

Unless they worship the communist state and alter ALL their doctrines to be in compliance with the party line they are not allowed to exist.... they literally are told what to believe or not believe.

They are also spied on and every "infraction" is reported. The only free choice that exists in China is which Chinese brand to purchase, patriotism is mandatory and very important to your social credit score.

 

[ToxicBunny]

So you are surprised that a communist government ignores it's constitution or rewrites it as is needed? That it captures all news sources?

To the level you are saying against the Christian religion yes I would be....

 

[SoldierMan]

If you dig a bit further you will find it is the "shout it out loud" brigade that normally gets into trouble with the authorities. Missionary's , evangalists etc etc.
Existing Christian churches arent interfered with, however establishing new one's is almost impossible and if a new one is established it is closed down.
It is illegal to try and convert a person to religion in China. If people choose to follow a religion they may, however try and convert or convince someone that your belief is superior in any way and off you go.

LOL "Shout it out loud" literally describes most of Christianity We sing praise songs that can be heard far and wide, we preach to some of our friends and family, etc.
One could reach an agreement with the government like the Catholic Church did, but that would mean selling out.

Would you say that Richard Dawkins is the "shout it out loud" type? Should he be silenced in China/whatever religious country?
Are you saying all Christians that preach the gospel should be silenced in China?
Do you approve of the government re-writing the Bible?

"Existing Christian churches arent interfered with"

LOL Hundreds of churches have been demolished, so no, existing churches are not safe.

You seem to approve of some of these laws, or am I mistaken?

 

[rambo919]

To the level you are saying against the Christian religion yes I would be....

Given that a central tenant of Christianity/Judeasm is to have no other gods and that a communist state expects to be worshiped as a replacement for all gods...... isn't the conflict obvious and inevitable?

Which is ironic since another central tenant of Christianity is to give all loyalty that is not to God to the state, communism though demands all loyalty and from the start has hated Christianity specifically as one of it's chief opponents to utopia, this is clear in the literature.

 

[SoldierMan]

They are not told what to believe, they are told what they can and cannot do regarding preaching and attempted converting of others to those beliefs. Which is as it should be. Free choice to attend or not, free choice to join or not.

I have absolutely no stake in the religous game, so couldnt care less what they demolish or dont demolish.

Wrong, the government of China has literally re-written the Bible.

Seems people like you need a little reminder of how tyranny works. You might not care now....

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
-- Martin Niemöller

So you might not care less now, but one day they will come for you and your much cherished rights, and because you were silent when others where being oppressed, you will be subject to that very oppression yourself. I wonder if anybody will care.... I'm sure you will.

 

[rambo919]

Wrong, the government of China has literally re-written the Bible.

Yep, only the official sanitized version is allowed, the others are illegal.

 

[Nanfeishen]

Unless they worship the communist state and alter ALL their doctrines to be in compliance with the party line they are not allowed to exist.... they literally are told what to believe or not believe.

They are also spied on and every "infraction" is reported. The only free choice that exists in China is which Chinese brand to purchase, patriotism is mandatory and very important to your social credit score.

Have you attended or been to a church in China or are you just parroting the usual anti-China propoganda spewed out by religious organisations in the west.

 

[rambo919]

Have you attended or been to a church in China or are you just parroting the usual anti-China propoganda spewed out by religious organisations in the west.

Given the reputation of Chinese prisons nvm the re-education camps...... what do you think?

 

[Nanfeishen]

Wrong, the government of China has literally re-written the Bible.

Seems people like you need a little reminder of how tyranny works. You might not care now....

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
-- Martin Niemöller

So you might not care less now, but one day they will come for you and your much cherished rights, and because you were silent when others where being oppressed, you will be subject to that very oppression yourself. I wonder if anybody will care.... I'm sure you will.

Really , an outdated quote from a bygone era , that could and will never to be repeated.

I have lived through the "Rooi Gevaar" , the "Geel Gevaar" and the "Swart Gevaar" and they all turned out to be nothing but fear mongering political nonsense.
The tyranny's are long gone, its the Religious fundamentalists that are the future concern, as they wont stop until their ideologies are stopped.

 

[Nanfeishen]

Given the reputation of Chinese prisons nvm the re-education camps...... what do you think?

So clearly no then, yet i have visited one or 2 along with many numerous temples while in China , seen people going in and out , praying, attending service and often openly carrying a bible along with them, and this was in the early 90's when China was only just beginning to open up to the West.
Our first trip we actually had to have a "government"guide.
Dont believe the propaganda, go and see for yourself.

 

[Gnarls]

So clearly no then, yet i have visited one or 2 along with many numerous temples while in China , seen people going in and out , praying, attending service and often openly carrying a bible along with them, and this was in the early 90's when China was only just beginning to open up to the West.
Our first trip we actually had to have a "government"guide.
Dont believe the propaganda, go and see for yourself.

No thanks Hong Kong is enough. Off topic a bit but did you see what they did to Ai Wei Wei?

 

[rambo919]

The tyranny's are long gone, its the Religious fundamentalists that are the future concern, as they wont stop until their ideologies are stopped.

So you are biased against real Christians, took long enough to get you to admit it.

So clearly no then, yet i have visited one or 2 along with many numerous temples while in China , seen people going in and out , praying, attending service and often openly carrying a bible along with them, and this was in the early 90's when China was only just beginning to open up to the West.
Our first trip we actually had to have a "government"guide.
Dont believe the propaganda, go and see for yourself.

So you got shown around like a regular tourist and actually believe that's how it is? Really?

 

[SoldierMan]

Really , an outdated quote from a bygone era , that could and will never to be repeated.

I have lived through the "Rooi Gevaar" , the "Geel Gevaar" and the "Swart Gevaar" and they all turned out to be nothing but fear mongering political nonsense.
The tyranny's are long gone, its the Religious fundamentalists that are the future concern, as they wont stop until their ideologies are stopped.

Bwahahahahaha you cannot be that obtuse. This very topic IS is the new tyranny. China IS the new tyranny. Along with North Korea, Eritrea, Zimbabwe, Sudan, etc, etc. But I guess those people don't count right, fck their rights and liberty because it doesn't affect me.

All those millions of starving Zimbabweans, no, that quote won't resonate with them. What about all those North Koreans in prisons, no, that quote won't resonate with them. That's all in the past, there's no more torture or imprisonment in the modern world

If you think that quote is outdated then you have learnt NOTHING from the history of war of man, and are doomed to view it unleashed upon others, or even have it repeat on you. Just look at the tyrannies I quoted above.

You think that quote is irrelevant to South Africa? You show your ignorance of how tyranny creeps. First they try and confiscate firearms for self defence (which they ARE currently trying to do, educate yourself) then they go for land rights (which they are implementing at this very moment) and so it carries on. Who knows how the ANC will react if one day their power is threatened. Can you honestly say they will hand over the reigns of power willingly and peacefully?

Wake the fck up man. Tyranny exists, it has existed in the past, it exists now, and will exist in the future. Remove your head from Richard Dawkins' ass and see that religion can be used for bad but also for good.