An argument in favour of stricter gun control laws in SA

mojoman

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yes, a whole 0.75 knife deaths per day.

PS
The murder rate in England and Wales has actually gone down since the late 90s when handguns were effectively banned.
Maybe its due to an effective policing and judical system?
Neither which exist here...We have to look after ourselves....
 

Cosmik Debris

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yes, a whole 0.75 knife deaths per day.

PS
The murder rate in England and Wales has actually gone down since the late 90s when handguns were effectively banned.

Yes. The difference is criminals aren't armed with firearms in the UK.
 

SaucePlz

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I feel like this argument is always reduced to a yes/no question on it's own, with a disregard of the state of the society in which the question is asked. If the root causes (generally, unemployment & poverty and high levels of inequality) are not addressed, these criminals will use whatever they have access to. As has been pointed out with regard to the UK and knives. Same thing happened with terrorism across Europe: access to and the ability to move chemicals became heavily monitored, so we saw an increase in vehicles being used as weapons.
People will always kill each other, that's unavoidable, but we should strive to get it to a point where you at least know your murderer.
 

mojoman

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I don't own a gun but I am 98% certain that legal gun owners are not the ones running around breaking in to houses and hijacking people.
Up until a year ago I also didnt own one..never even wanted one....But numerous daylight robberies and spectacularly useless cops made me change my mind...You are responsible for your own safety now....Just a matter of time before these things are in my house trying to hurt me....I plan on changing that outcome (within the ambits of the law naturally....;))
 

Dave

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I'l say it again, the high crime rate in SA is not cause by legal gun ownership by law abiding citizens - as much as you may dislike the fact that other people own guns.

The problem is quite simple.

If you create a criminal friendly environment, then criminals will respond accordingly.

If you say that people are not allowed to protect their own property from criminals - well I'm sure criminals will appreciate that.

If you do not have the political will to prevent criminal activity, then criminals will become more emboldened.

If criminals know that the police are not that effective, and that they will probably not get caught, crime will be seen to pay.

If the politicians themselves are criminals...

I could go on, but surely you get point?

It's got NOTHING to do with law abiding people owning guns!

and amazingly, your entire essay has NOTHING to do with what I wrote or the statement I was replying to.

Maybe follow the conversation for context next time?

This is what I replied to:

Go have a look at the UK stats
 

SaucePlz

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I don't own a gun but I am 98% certain that legal gun owners are not the ones running around breaking in to houses and hijacking people.
Spending quite a bit of my youth on farms, I'm comfortable with guns and have enjoyed the times I've gone shooting as an adult, but with my history of depression I don't trust myself to have a firearm in the house.
That being said, I don't expect society to get rid of guns because I might misuse it.
 

Cosmik Debris

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I'l say it again, the high crime rate in SA is not cause by legal gun ownership by law abiding citizens - as much as you may dislike the fact that other people own guns.

It's got NOTHING to do with law abiding people owning guns!

The small town I live near has had 6 murders in the last year. With a population of 3000, that makes the statistical murder incidence rate 165 per 100 000 which is much higher than the national or world incidence rate. This is statistically one of the most dangerous towns to live in anywhere in the world. But let us break down those murders:

None were due to firearms. And being rural, this town and environs are heavily armed.
Most were domestic violence.
The majority of murderers were female
The preferred choice of weapon was a knife
Arson and strangulation were also used to murder.

But we want to take the legal firearms from citizens?
 
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K213N

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If this goes ahead I can only see legal firearm owners becoming illegal firearm owners. There would be no other reasonable option.
It would actually be very interesting. Every person with access to a workshop will be developing self defense alternatives. South Africans are not a roll-over-and-die people, as witnessed in July. It will be comical watching the government try to regulate away the influx of cheap, lethal, untraceable contraptions that civilians will be resorting to. Prepare to need a license to enter your local Builders Warehouse :ROFL:
 

mojoman

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Its not that hard to make a slam-gun or a 3D printed unit that can fire a couple of rounds...Biggest hassle would be the ammunition I think?
 

Cosmik Debris

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It would actually be very interesting. Every person with access to a workshop will be developing self defense alternatives. South Africans are not a roll-over-and-die people, as witnessed in July. It will be comical watching the government try to regulate away the influx of cheap, lethal, untraceable contraptions that civilians will be resorting to. Prepare to need a license to enter your local Builders Warehouse :ROFL:

Yes like this anti hijack device the government made illegal. I can see a comeback and nobody reporting its use. The government is just encouraging civil disobedience.

Screen-Shot-2016-06-01-at-10.50.39-AM.jpg
 

SaucePlz

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Yes like this anti hijack device the government made illegal. I can see a comeback and nobody reporting its use. The government is just encouraging civil disobedience.

Screen-Shot-2016-06-01-at-10.50.39-AM.jpg
This was the exact thing that popped into my head as well
 

_TrXtR_

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You don't need a gun license.
Its the government that needs you to have a license.
Guns work fine without a license.
Strict license means only those that don't care about the governments opinion are armed.
 

Swa

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and amazingly, your entire essay has NOTHING to do with what I wrote or the statement I was replying to.

Maybe follow the conversation for context next time?

This is what I replied to:
Yeah you ignore that the UK has simply traded one type of violence for another by comparing stats. The UK also started off from a much lower base and it's not like guns are outlawed.
 

Dave

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Yeah you ignore that the UK has simply traded one type of violence for another by comparing stats. The UK also started off from a much lower base and it's not like guns are outlawed.

I didn’t ignore anything, I simply made an observation about murder rates. You made all the assumptions after that.

Maybe I should give you the advice to read properly and comprehend context as well?
 

Vrotappel

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Stopping legal guns is not going to stop illegal guns. Funny fact - most illegal guns comes from the Police.
 

Cosmik Debris

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Very interesting read about who funds Gun Free South Africa:

 
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