An argument in favour of stricter gun control laws in SA

MGMT

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Apr 21, 2010
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116
yes, a whole 0.75 knife deaths per day.

PS
The murder rate in England and Wales has actually gone down since the late 90s when handguns were effectively banned.
That's nice for the UK. But this is not the UK.

People like you love peddling the same narrative..."This first world country was able to do it, so it works".

SA is not a first world country. Different problems. Different population make up. Different income per captia.

Do you really think by restricting legal guns that the crime/murder rate will go down?
 

Dave

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That's nice for the UK. But this is not the UK.

People like you love peddling the same narrative..."This first world country was able to do it, so it works".

SA is not a first world country. Different problems. Different population make up. Different income per captia*.

Someone else who can’t read (or reply to the right post), did you also struggle with basic reading at school? You might want to go back and read again, a bit slllooowwweerr this time so you can comprehend what you are reading.

Otherwise I’ll just say well done, carry on, but don’t lick any windows…

* PS it’s capita, not captia
 

alanB

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Feb 18, 2008
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From https://paratus.info/2021/08/01/wits-school-of-governance-report-on-the-fca/

To start, the report finds that there is little evidence (and it is unlikely) that the FCA caused any decline in crime rates over the period in question. Instead the decline can be ascribed to the level of strong and sustained policing as a “necessary condition for reducing firearm-related crime.” The FCA is also found to be insufficient to reduce firearm-related crime in the absence of strong policing.

This isn’t a controversial finding. The SA Institute of Race Relations, for example, independently reached similar conclusions in their paper Don’t add Chaos to Disorder – exposing the weakness of Key Civilian Disarmament Arguments, which was published before the Wits report was made public.

Another finding pertains to the fact that fewer than 5% of all crimes reported to the SAPS are relevant to the FCA. Firearms are used in the perpetration of only about a third of all murders, and the report cautions that “violent crime should not be equated with firearms as they are often carried out with other weapons.”

Tying-in with this finding, the report goes on to state that “strong policing must be maintained in order to achieve sustained decline in crime. In spite of the FCA, in the absence of strong policing, the usage of firearms in perpetrating murder (although not used in the majority of murders) tends to return to the higher levels.”

The report also notes that so-called Firearm Dependent crimes – crimes dependent upon the use of firearms, such as truck hijackings and CIT robberies – are “impervious to the FCA”. Even when these crimes decline under strong policing, the “level of usage of firearms in these crimes remains intact.”

Hence, regardless of how onerous or restrictive gun control laws are, they have minimal to no effect on the murder rate, nor on the proportion of all murders committed by use of firearms. The FCA also has no effect at all on Firearm Dependent crimes. However, strong policing succeeds in bringing the overall crime rate (as well as the proportion of murders perpetrated by use of firearms) down, regardless of how strict or permissive firearm legislation is.
 

MGMT

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Apr 21, 2010
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116
Someone else who can’t read (or reply to the right post), did you also struggle with basic reading at school? You might want to go back and read again, a bit slllooowwweerr this time so you can comprehend what you are reading.

Otherwise I’ll just say well done, carry on, but don’t lick any windows…

* PS it’s capita, not captia
Geez... Now I understand why some animals eat their young.
 

LCBXX

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If being a good South African means you should wear a mask whilst being fully vaccinated against Covid in public, because it's seen as being responsible for your own safety and for the safety of others, then carrying a gun should be mandatory.
 

AstroTurf

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Our borders are too porous and our police are too corrupt for stricter private ownership laws to have any true effect.
 

John Tempus

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Someone else who can’t read (or reply to the right post), did you also struggle with basic reading at school? You might want to go back and read again, a bit slllooowwweerr this time so you can comprehend what you are reading.

Otherwise I’ll just say well done, carry on, but don’t lick any windows…

* PS it’s capita, not captia

You missed his point.

1. SA police is not functional. If you cant enforce the law then you have no way of eliminating criminals from having guns.

2. SA have horrible border control. Take a look at how many Nigerians is effectively to this day completely controlling massive property blocks in areas like Benoni that gets raided every other year and they just end up right back in the same place with even more weapons.

3. SA is among the most corrupt countries in the world so it wouldn't surprise me if we have politicians directly linked to operating criminal world and that makes it even more impossible to enforce any laws across all citizens.


If we had easier access to legally licensed guns for each home as protection, ironically the police would have to do WAY less work because criminals now would have to think twice when they know everyone is armed vs not having to think at all knowing the odds of them invading a home that is armed is very unlikely.
 

Dave

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You missed his point.

1. SA police is not functional. If you cant enforce the law then you have no way of eliminating criminals from having guns.

2. SA have horrible border control. Take a look at how many Nigerians are effectively to this day completely controlling massive property blocks in areas like Benoni that gets raided every other year and they just end up right back in the same place with even more weapons.

3. SA is among the most corrupt countries in the world so there it wouldn't surprise me if we have politicians directly linked to operating criminal world and that makes it even more impossible to enforce any laws across all citizens.

No, he completely missed my post, I didn’t make any reference to the SAP, or even to the gun licensing issue. Unfortunately he either can’t read (or just didn’t read) what my original post said. It made no reference to SA gun control at all.

All three posters who responded appear to be too stupid to actually comprehend (or couldn’t be bother to read) what I said.
 

grok

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The biggest argument in favor of banning blacks is that more than 99.99% of recent looters were all black..

I mean don't blame me, or call me racist, just look at what the stats say..

/s
 

Mista_Mobsta

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Another finding pertains to the fact that fewer than 5% of all crimes reported to the SAPS are relevant to the FCA. Firearms are used in the perpetration of only about a third of all murders, and the report cautions that “violent crime should not be equated with firearms as they are often carried out with other weapons.”
Can we unpack what GFSA is trying to do? Is their approach to ban self-defense hand-guns due to:
The fact that firearms stolen from legal owners equates to a large amount of illegal firearms?
The fact that legal owners of firearms perpetrate murders/violent behavior?

I seriously struggle to understand their logic?
 

ForceFate

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May 18, 2009
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Yes like this anti hijack device the government made illegal. I can see a comeback and nobody reporting its use. The government is just encouraging civil disobedience.

Screen-Shot-2016-06-01-at-10.50.39-AM.jpg
It wasn't made illegal.
 

Ghoster79

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Yes. The difference is criminals aren't armed with firearms in the UK.
Isn't this kind of the point - a criminal in the UK knows, if he breaks into a house with a knife or a baseball bat, chances are he will be met by someone defending their property with the same weapons - he has no advantage, so might be more likely to not go ahead. Is a local criminal going to break into a house knowing the owner is also armed and maybe even better so than he is? As long as criminals have an advantage over their targets, they will have no reason to think twice.
 

Bobbin

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No, he completely missed my post, I didn’t make any reference to the SAP, or even to the gun licensing issue. Unfortunately he either can’t read (or just didn’t read) what my original post said. It made no reference to SA gun control at all.

All three posters who responded appear to be too stupid to actually comprehend (or couldn’t be bother to read) what I said.

I just read what you said, and you sir are the one in the wrong.

You're the one who mentioned the handgun banning in the UK/false equivalence as an argument in a thread about gun control in SA. You got called out for it, now you're on the defensive calling everyone else stupid. Meanwhile back at the ranch...
 

Dave

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I just read what you said, and you sir are the one in the wrong.

You're the one who mentioned the handgun banning in the UK/false equivalence as an argument in a thread about gun control in SA. You got called out for it, now you're on the defensive calling everyone else stupid. Meanwhile back at the ranch...

Oh? Really?

Go have a look at the UK stats and tell us what happend to the amount of murders using knives per year after the guns got taken away.

Fun fact, there are more murders in SA in 5 days than there are knife murders in a year in the UK.
 
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