Animals committing suicide

mooK

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Since we're contemplating something as ridiculous as bees' awareness of self, I suppose there's no harm in going a little off topic...

A few years ago at Tharaxis' house, hmm... Ah well, it's been a while. This must've been like 4/5 years ago. Anyway, I'm sure it was someone with the 'Datura' nick, and u had a little bro there as well.
 

Datura

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Since we're contemplating something as ridiculous as bees' awareness of self, I suppose there's no harm in going a little off topic...

A few years ago at Tharaxis' house, hmm... Ah well, it's been a while. This must've been like 4/5 years ago. Anyway, I'm sure it was someone with the 'Datura' nick, and u had a little bro there as well.
lol... nah mate. Different Datura :)... Why don't u think bees can be aware of their existance. I think animals are fully aware of death but accept it as a part of life and know it's coming no matter what. I am sure some animals contemplate and even practice suicide.
 

kilps

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My dad's told me this story back from his army days...

One of his old friends in the army used to make a ring of fire anytime he found a scorpion, he used to put the scorpion in the middle of the ring, and it would try to escape. Once realising that it was completely surrounded by fire, it would sting itself with it's tail, commiting suicide, knowing it had no way of getting out of the situation.

Always found it rather interesting.
I always thought that a scorpion was immune to it's own poison :confused:

ah - here we go http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpion#Suicide_misconception - sorry, story isn't true ;)
 

Datura

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Scorpions look cool under UV light. Very interesting article kilps
 

Debbie

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To go back to the bees thing-

- do bees perceive themselves as individual bees or as a swarm?

- if bees perceive themselves as a swarm, do they realise their individual bee-ness is going to die... is there any kind of perception of separateness within the swarm or none at all?

- do bees have a star trek-like 'Q' identity?

- if they perceive themselves as a swarm, can we compare stinging bees with islamic suicide bombers?

- if bees perceive themselves as a swarm, then how confused must the queen bee be?

- Can you have perception of life if you don't have perception of death?
 

adamr

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To Debbie 2 questions (my opinions on ur questions)

1. I think they see themselves as a collective and don’t worry about their individualism... their existence is to serve the queen
2. I doubt they know that if they sting they will die. It is in defense for the queen or themselves. If they knew they would die, would they sting ???
3. The borg in star trek ?.. id say yes
4. Maybe ... are suicide bombers helpless? Suicide bombers see their act as an attack against the nations that suppress Muslims in general aka America and Britain. Do they do it because there is no other means of fighting back?? But remember there was examples of suicide bombings being done as individuals ....
5. No I don’t think so. If a being has the ability to know its alive im sure it will question the end of its existence at some point. Maybe its for this very reason that humans commit suicide cause they know they can end their existence. If an animal knew it could end its existence would it?
 

adamr

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I know elephants do perceive death ... seen this on National Geographic where they would mourn another's death ... very very sad ...
 

Safferbeauty

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If you think about it very technically humans are classified as animals so therefore if you have to think about it on technicalo terms animals do commit suicide.
 

bekdik

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My neighbour's dog committed suicide when it smashed its head into my baseball bat. Prior to that it did seem very unhappy as it whined continuosly.
 

adamr

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My neighbour's dog committed suicide when it smashed its head into my baseball bat. Prior to that it did seem very unhappy as it whined continuosly.
thats cruel ... tell me you did not .. .
 

noxibox

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Yes, old animals do commit suicide. Injured animals may do so as well.
 

Datura

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Lemmings commit suicide
Claim: During the filming of the 1958 Disney nature documentary White Wilderness, the film crew induced lemmings into jumping off a cliff and into the sea in order to document their supposedly suicidal behavior.
Status: True.

Origins: Lemming
suicide is fiction. Contrary to popular belief, lemmings do not periodically hurl themselves off of cliffs and into the sea. Cyclical explosions in population do occasionally induce lemmings to attempt to migrate to areas of lesser population density. When such a migration occurs, some lemmings die by falling over cliffs or drowning in lakes or rivers. These deaths are not deliberate "suicide" attempts, however, but accidental deaths resulting from the lemmings' venturing into unfamiliar territories and being crowded and pushed over dangerous ledges. In fact, when the competition for food, space, or mates becomes too intense, lemmings are much more likely to kill each other than to kill themselves.

Disney's White Wilderness was filmed in Alberta, Canada, which is not a native habitat for lemmings and has no outlet to the sea. Lemmings were imported for use in the film, purchased from Inuit children by the filmmakers. The Arctic rodents were placed on a snow-covered turntable and filmed from various angles to produce a "migration" sequence; afterwards, the helpless creatures were transported to a cliff overlooking a river and herded into the water. White Wilderness does not depict an actual lemming migration — at no time are more than a few dozen lemmings ever shown on the screen at once. The entire sequence was faked using a handful of lemmings deceptively photographed to create the illusion of a large herd of migrating creatures.

Nine different photographers spent three years shooting and assembling footage for the various segments that comprise White Wilderness. It is not known whether Disney approved or knew about the activities of James R. Simon, the principal photographer for the lemmings sequence.

Nature documentaries are notoriously difficult to film, as wild animals are not terribly cooperative. Many nature shows and films of this era — including Disney's "True-Life Adventure" movies and TV's Wild Kingdom — staged events to capture exciting footage for their audiences. The sight of a few lemmings mistaking a lake or ocean for a stream and drowning after swimming out too far, or being pushed over a cliff during the frenzied rush of migration, has become the basis of a widespread belief that lemmings commit suicide en masse when their numbers grow too large.
Just to put that one to rest :)
 

noxibox

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then why do us human do it ? ... is there something more to us than just flesh and bones ....
No, we just have bigger, more advanced brains. We make more advanced tools and know how to plan.

But animals do kill and deliberately injure themselves.

Suicide
 
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