Another fuel price hike on Wednesday

[Kalvaer]

edit As a side note.. WTH is diesel more expensive to buy when its half the cost to produce? or why cant we buy biodiesel in this country

Replying to myself I know.. but there seem to be some people here that work in the petrolchem industry so I'd like to see if some of the reading up I've just done is correct.

Diesel is easier to produce than petrol and cheaper.

Now from wikipedia:

price fluctuations often mean that the inverse is true; for example, the cost of diesel traditionally rises during colder months as demand for heating oil, which is refined much the same way, rises

But then hmm we dont use heating oils do we.. checked that up and a form of heating oil is called Kerosene, which we in South Africa would call Paraffin (BTW I also saw that heating oils take up 25% of worlds crude oil second to petrol. Diesel is even lower on the list)

Now if I'm not mistaken.. paraffin prices have come down drastically in the last few years.. yet Diesel has gone through the roof.. So are us diesel users paying for the goverment to supply cheap paraffin to its voters???

 

[DigitalSoldier]

By importing most of our oil from Iran, as we still do.

The production capacity of the synfuels plant in Secunda is about 150 000 bpd (The plant in Sasolburg doesn't produce oil anymore). SA requires about 500 000 bpd to keep the refineries running. There is absolutely no way Sasol can supply all of SA's oil needs, unless a massive capital investment is made to build more oil from coal factories.

The problem still comes back to the government its not any of the South Africas duty to make a massive capital investment we can do it and those with money should actually but its the ANC government who needs to make the "massive capital investment"

So again it is the governments fault

 

[Rkootknir]

Replying to myself I know.. but there seem to be some people here that work in the petrolchem industry so I'd like to see if some of the reading up I've just done is correct.

Diesel is easier to produce than petrol and cheaper.

OK, the Diesel price is unregulated, so petrol stations can ask whatever they want.

However, in SA there has been a more significant problem. Refineries have had to convert to cleaner Diesel production (lower sulphur content). This process hasn't gone very smoothly at some of the refineries and so there has been a significant undersupply of Diesel. Economics 101 tells you that this will lead to an increase in price.

[edit]
What is interesting is that SA actually has an oversupply of refining capacity when everything is running smoothly. The margins are too small for any of the big refineries (Sapref, Natref, Enref, Caltex Milnerton or Sasol) to increase capacity.

 

[killadoob]

as far as i know sasol use coal in their petrol they speed up the coal to oil process or something but i might be wrong

 

[Rkootknir]

as far as i know sasol use coal in their petrol they speed up the coal to oil process or something but i might be wrong

The Sasol CTL (coal to liquid) process is a much improved version of the original CTL process used by Germany in WWII. Simply put the process is:

1. Coal is gassified to produce syngas (mixture of CO and H2)
2. The syngas is reacted in the presence of a catalyst in order to produce various hydrocarbons (incl oil)
3. Oil and other hydrocarbons are refined.

See this pic for more detail.

 

[Kalvaer]

OK, the Diesel price is unregulated, so petrol stations can ask whatever they want.

However, in SA there has been a more significant problem. Refineries have had to convert to cleaner Diesel production (lower sulphur content). This process hasn't gone very smoothly at some of the refineries and so there has been a significant undersupply of Diesel. Economics 101 tells you that this will lead to an increase in price.

Call me stupid.. but I dont get it.. If its unregulated, how come the goverment still decides when the prices is going up? (fair enough for the RAF)They also mentioned that there are two price increases for Diesel, the low sulfur content and the old content diesel, yet when I fill up there is usually only 1 diesel pump and i dont have any choice

So where the hell can I get this old diesel then and still pay R3.00 a litre with the RAF tax added on

 

[Rkootknir]

Call me stupid.. but I dont get it.. If its unregulated, how come the goverment still decides when the prices is going up? (fair enough for the RAF)They also mentioned that there are two price increases for Diesel, the low sulfur content and the old content diesel, yet when I fill up there is usually only 1 diesel pump and i dont have any choice

So where the hell can I get this old diesel then and still pay R3.00 a litre with the RAF tax added on

There are still various levies and taxes on the Diesel price even though the final retail price is unregulated.

See this for the current split.

 

[Kalvaer]

From that graph on 6 from 1990 to 2005 petrols price different from crude to pump has gone from R1/l to R3/l.. Fsking hell i'm in the wrong market then. if I did that to my markup my customers would tell me to take a long walk off a short peer.

The graph on Page 7 is also interesting, especiall considering that all the countries above us... All have some of the most evolved public transport systems in the world.. so they dont give a **** about petrol they catch a train or a bus, yet we pay through our rear ends

Is it just me or does it seem to be a trend in this country that everyone seems to be raping us blind.

Welcome to South Africa.
The Land of the free.
Just bring your own Vaseline!

 

[ettubrute]

Is it just me or does it seem to be a trend in this country that everyone seems to be raping us blind.

Jip. Since there's no strong consumer body protecting the public...

 

[DigitalSoldier]

But will we ever get a consumer body in this country because we dont have any safe public transport so the demand for fuel will always be there and government can make the price 20p/l and people will still pay because who will protect us ?

 

[ettubrute]

We need to start one, or join one! Will never get one without participation! Power to the masses...

 

[Clipse]

Iran is raking it in a lot more though...

Ultimately the US is raking in the most

 

[FxpForce]

all I can say is k@k en betaal!

 

[DigitalSoldier]

I heard petrol going up again next month with about 40 cents

Dunno if its true ?

 

[Moederloos]

I heard petrol going up again next month with about 40 cents

Dunno if its true ?

prob too early to tell. Rand is now below 6.00 to the dollar and holding.

 

[Slootvreter]

prob too early to tell. Rand is now below 6.00 to the dollar and holding.

*bump * If only we knew then what REALLY happened...ROFL

 

[boramk]

now the rand/dollar rate is like 6.11 ... so next month they need to drop it again ... lets see if that happens!

Oh crap???

 

[Rendier]

Damn...

If we only knew then how lucky we were lol...

Would have sold my house and invested in $.

Sigh... always to late

 

[krycor]

oh how i miss the R6/$

 

[N1sh]

LOL! those were the days.