Anti-Islamic video blocked for Malaysian YouTubers

As a Muslim, I find those videos distasteful and insulting (from what I've read about them). My choice was to ignore them - they mean nothing to me. But the reaction from Muslim lunatics around the world is crazy, and must be condemned. That is not Islam, and not the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be unto him). It is the exact opposite. Those people are murderers, and must be brought to justice. Amazing how groups of crazy people can taint the whole worlds perception of Islam. The same can be said of most religions and groups.

Islam teaches you to lead by example. If the world paints us in a certain light, it's our own fault for giving off this impression.
 
Saajid said:
As a Muslim, I find those videos distasteful and insulting (from what I've read about them). My choice was to ignore them - they mean nothing to me. But the reaction from Muslim lunatics around the world is crazy, and must be condemned. That is not Islam, and not the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be unto him). It is the exact opposite. Those people are murderers, and must be brought to justice. Amazing how groups of crazy people can taint the whole worlds perception of Islam. The same can be said of most religions and groups.

Islam teaches you to lead by example. If the world paints us in a certain light, it's our own fault for giving off this impression.
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There are two types of religion: that which has been tamed by the West and that which remains stuck in the dark ages.

I never understood why anyone would want to censor the world around their sensibilities; then I realised it's because it's easier to lie to yourself than it is to reconsider your perception of the world.
 
Saajid said:
As a Muslim, I find those videos distasteful and insulting (from what I've read about them). My choice was to ignore them - they mean nothing to me. But the reaction from Muslim lunatics around the world is crazy, and must be condemned. That is not Islam, and not the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be unto him). It is the exact opposite. Those people are murderers, and must be brought to justice. Amazing how groups of crazy people can taint the whole worlds perception of Islam. The same can be said of most religions and groups.

Islam teaches you to lead by example. If the world paints us in a certain light, it's our own fault for giving off this impression.
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You're a Muslim? What does the Qu'ran say about non-muslims, and how you as a muslim should behave towards them? As far as I'm aware, the answers to these questions themselves, as declared by Muhammad, do not grant you room to call yourself a muslim but at the same time express that you desire genuine long-term peaceful co-existence with people who firmly choose to hold conflicting world-views. Sorry to have to hold it against you, but I can't accept you wanting to lead by example if the guideline which you look to when you set an example is inherently bigoted to the point of granting those humans who hold your belief the right to gross violence against other humans in this realm who do not share that belief, so that they may be receive the 'ultimate nobility reward' of 72 virgins in the life to come. So that entire notion is instantly rejected as absurd (out the window) to my mind without even a second-thought, why would I possibly want to consider a microsecond of my time in a day for it? :)

The historical accuracy of the Christian gospel records (in terms of the usual standards of historical hypothesis testing: explanatory power, explanatory scope, plausibility, ad hoc-ness, accord with accepted beliefs, and superiority to rival hypotheses) are collectively far more sound/reliable/legible than the single solitary source used for the Qu'ran (Muhammad) - we can know by matter of established fact/certainty that Jesus Christ, the Son of God incarnate, was executed and crucified on a cross, 2000+ years ago (as the Gregorian Calendar so diligently tracks to this date), as a sacrificial atonement for the sins of potentially ALL of Mankind, and that He rose from the dead on the Sunday following his crucifixion, as a living proof/testimony of his divinity, leaving behind him an empty tomb and shattering the claims against him of blasphemy from all those who had not believed. This event thus also logically DISPROVES the validity of Islam and even the prolongment of classic orthodox Judaism (the claim that the Messiah has not yet come) as that too was made redundant by the incarnation & resurrection of of Jesus -- And He himself said: There is only One Way to Truth and Life, for the corrupt human being: acceptance from God of his Son Jesus Christ who innocently had to endure the suffering/death justice for all who are otherwise due to face the consequences of Justice under the Highest Most Righteous Judge. All that's required on our part is the selfless acknowledgement/acceptance of this gift which was offered to us from God, IN SPITE/LIGHT of our perversions - By our infinitely merciful and graceful and loving creator God the Father.
 
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By "lunatics" they mean average Muslims. Have a look at a country where Muslims control the government. The Supreme Muslim leader of that Muslim country is calling for the death of people critical of Islam, or people he feels have slighted Islam.

So as much as people wanna paint this as "lunatic fringe". It is really the de facto norm.

Kinda reminds me of when that young girl in America stood up for her rights and she got a ton of death and rape messages about it from Christians. The apologetics used the same excuse being used in this thread... that its the lunatic fringe. That was BS, the people sending her death and rape threats were average christians... in her school and in her class.

I dont believe in this lunatic fringe.
 
Saajid said:
Like I said, you get them in all faiths and groups.

/ignore.
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Yes you do indeed. The difference is, with Islam, the faith you claim allegiance with: YOU are the UNWANTED LUNATIC if you're NOT actually actively eradicating the world of innocent non-muslims yourself. In Christianity, someone like Anders Breivik who killed innocent people is the heretic that perverts and distorts the truth. But the world would be just fine were everyone to follow the real message: Peace, unity, and UNCONDITIONAL (unlike 'allah's conditional, ala non-perfect/fallible) Love. From an Islamic perspective, you, seeking peace and unity (as we all should), are the one distorting your religion's commandments. If you preached these wonderfully civilized western notions of LIBERTY / PEACEFUL UNITY and EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL back in Afghanistan, I'm sure you'd have a saw chopping through your alive neck in no time. Pity though, I agree. But then please, lead by example properly if you're going to do it at all. I'm afraid there is no time and place in this world for a "peaceful" Islam, because that's an oxymoron by its very nature. I've got all the time in the world for Arab people though, but the faith most of them choose seems inconsistent. That just seems a brute fact... If you can prove otherwise to me (apart from your actions -- I'm talking about that doctrine that you choose to associate yourself with, which I believe is flawed in a violent/offensive way), then please do, I promise I am listening.
 
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fragtion said:
Yes you do indeed. The difference is, with Islam, you're the LUNATIC if you're NOT eradicating the world of innocent non-muslims. In Christianity, someone like Anders Breivik who killed innocent people is the heretic that perverts and distorts the truth. But the world would be just fine were everyone to follow the real message: Peace, unity, and UNCONDITIONAL (unlike 'allah's conditional, ala non-perfect/fallible) Love. From an Islamic perspective, you, seeking peace and unity (as we all should), are the one distorting your religion's commandments. If you preached these wonderful western ideas back in Afghanistan, I'm sure you'd have a knife sawing through your neck.
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Well with Andre, it was more his insane libertarian beliefs that drove his ideology to kill liberals. I see Christianity in the same light as I do Islam, so I have no favourites here. He specifically chose targets that went against his libertarian ideals. If he had chosen targets based on his christian beliefs (Like attacking a mosque or something). I would hear you, but what he did was clearly based on his political ideology. He might have thrown a little Christianity cuckoo in there for stir things up but it was not the main driving force behind his actions.

You can not say the same about the Supreme leader in Iran, or the protesters causing mayham around the world. The ideology driving their attacks are very clearly religious.
 
ghoti said:
I would hear you, but what he did was clearly based on his political ideology. He might have thrown a little Christianity cuckoo in there for stir things up but it was not the main driving force behind his actions.
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Yeah, which was precisely my point. Whenever you hear about "lunatics" that happened to be "Christian" or use "Christian" justifications for their atrocities, they'll always turn out to be false about their references/reasons derived from Biblical texts. That's where Christianity and Islam differ in terms of their alleged "lunatics".

Is Christianity to blame for Anders Breivik using it as a sapegoat for his crimes, when Christianity seeks to spread a message of peace instead? Hardly, my friend. In contrast, is Islam to blame when the twin towers collapse? Read the Qu'ran objectively, and you'll find your answer, and it won't be 'hardly' this time around.

So you're welcome to "see them both in the same light", but by the logic I've just exposed, you'd simply be wrong to make such a generalizing category mistake, because as I've just shown, Christianity is not guilty of falling into that generalization. "Christian" lunatics are not acting in accordance with the Christian doctrine; Similarly, peaceful and accommodating Muslims (towards non-muslims) are not acting in accordance with true Islamic teaching (On the contrary: the Muslim 'fanatics'/jihadists are the only ones truly doing so).
 
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fragtion said:
Yeah, which was precisely my point. Whenever you hear about "lunatics" that happened to be "Christian" or use "Christian" justifications for their atrocities, they'll always be false about their references to Biblical texts. That's where Christianity and Islam differs in terms of their alleged "lunatics". So you're welcome to "see them both in the same light", but by the logic I've just exposed, you'd simply be wrong to make such a generalizing category mistake. Is Christianity to blame for Anders Breivik using it as a sapegoat for his crimes, when Christianity seeks to spread a message of peace instead? Hardly, my friend. In contrast, is Islam to blame when the twin towers collapse? Read the Qu'ran objectively, and you'll find your answer, and it won't be 'hardly' this time around
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Okay, you dont make any sense. Ive clarified my position, I dont believe in lunatic fringes on either size. I do believe beliefs that believe in crazy stuff like invisible Gods and such attract crazy people, but I dont believe its a minority.

You keep using the example of Andre. Christianity was not the driving reason behind his activities. Yes, he was a Christian, but he didnt kill liberals for Christian ideals. He killed them for his libertarian ideals. So your point is kinda mute. However, if you had used the example of the Serbs, then yes. You would have a point. There was a bunch of Christians using Christianity as the reason to genocide Muslims (which thanks to the UN and a no-fly zone, the people in Kosovo are better off today). There you can blame Christianity. It was Christian beleifs that were pushing the genocide. It was not Christian beliefs pushing Andre`s murder spree.

Its like if a libertarian Muslim killed liberal Muslims, I wouldnt blame Islam for that as well. However, what we can do is blame Islam for the Muslims around the world going crazy at the moment. Its the driving ideology behind the protests. Its really simple.

Ive read major parts of all religious texts. I have hardly found a single redeeming quality worth the chaos and evil they spread around the world yet.

Again, stop trying to blame this on a lunatic fringe. This is main stream Islam. If anything, the peaceful pacifists are the fringe. Look at WHOLE countries controlled by Islam. Are the millions of people in Iran "lunatic fringe"? Is the Supreme leader of Iran just some religious nutcase who no one listens to? Paaaaaleeeeease.
 
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ghoti said:
You keep using the example of Andre. Christianity was not the driving reason behind his activities. Yes, he was a Christian, but he didnt kill liberals for Christian ideals. He killed them for his libertarian ideals.
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THAT was precisely my point, thanks :) The media were quick to call him a Christian and blame Christianity / associate him with it under the spotlight -- But was it really to blame? As you just said: nope.
ghoti said:
So your point is kinda mute
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Ehhhhh? Nope, not if you just reinforced that point yourself.
 
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fragtion said:
THAT was precisely my point, thanks :)

Ehhhhh? Nope, not if you just reinforced that point yourself.
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Well, if you cant read simple paragraphs I cant expect you to be reasonable. Typical result of religious indoctrination.

Let me try this another way.

What was the driving force behind Andre`s attacks? His Libertarian ideology. Take away the warped libertarian ideology and he probably would not have killed those liberals.

What is the driving force behind the violence in these protests? Islamic Ideology. Take away Islam and there would be no protests over a bad film of some dead dude.

Do you understand my point? (and no, my point is not to do away with any ideology. I believe they have to die out by themselves like theyre currently doing).
 
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ghoti said:
Well, if you cant read simple paragraphs I cant expect you to be reasonable. Typical result of religious indoctrination.

Let me try this another way.

What was the driving force behind Andre`s attacks? His Libertarian ideology. Take away the warped libertarian ideology and he probably would not have killed those liberals.

What is the driving force behind the violence in these protests? Islamic Ideology. Take away Islam and there would be no protests over a bad film of some dead dude.

Do you understand my point? (and no, my point is not to do away with any ideology. I believe they have to die out by themselves like theyre currently doing).
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Yes I certainly do understand your point, and if you bother to read my posts again you'll see it's the exact same point that I made. You seem persistent about arguing with me over something that we seem to be in agreement about? Quite ironic when you say that I missed your point and that I should read YOUR posts again? Go figure =/ The dispute I had with you was that you see both Christianity and Islam in the same light, but then you openly admit that Christianity is not to blame, and that Islam is to blame: this is irrational reasoning, I'm afraid.
 
fragtion said:
The dispute I had with you was that you see both Christianity and Islam in the same light, but then you openly admit that Christianity is not to blame, and that Islam is to blame: this is irrational reasoning, I'm afraid.
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Im wasting my time trying to be reasonable with a religious person. /sigh

You just make up random stuff and believe it.
 
ghoti said:
Im wasting my time trying to be reasonable with a religious person. /sigh

You just make up random stuff and believe it.
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^_^ When you insult me without providing any reason whatsoever for such empty, baseless, & irrelevant attacks on nothing other than my persona, it only makes you the fool to readers seeking reasonable discourse/inquiry. Are you aware that these threads are read by many others apart from just me and you? Try keep that fact in mind next time you open your mouth, because you've made it quite clear that you have no other motive but to offend... In which case "I'm wasting my time trying to be reasonable with" a complete idiot... difference being: you earned the title.
 
fragtion said:
^_^ When you insult me without providing any reason whatsoever for such empty, baseless, & irrelevant attacks on nothing other than my persona, it only makes you the fool to readers seeking reasonable discourse/inquiry. Are you aware that these threads are read by many others apart from just me and you? Try keep that fact in mind next time you open your mouth, because you've made it quite clear that you have no other motive but to offend... In which case "I'm wasting my time trying to be reasonable with" a complete idiot... difference being: you earned the title.
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Your post is an example of the hypocrisy that blinds you to what I was saying earlier. First in the post I quote here you lecture me about the way I responded to you. Then you go do exactly what you accuse me of doing. Double standards much? Hypocrisy much?

Im not worried about reasonable people reading what I wrote and my responses to you. I tried to make a point, you clearly cant see it. /shrug Side affect of Islam I guess.
 
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ghoti said:
/shrug Side affect of Islam I guess.
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I guess this statment pretty much proves conclusively that you didn't read any of my posts AT ALL. I'm not a Muslim, I am a Christian. I guess you just can't tell the difference? (Not surprising given that you generalize them into the same bubble despite even leaking an admittance that they aren't both guilty in the same fundamental ways). With that sort of stereotypical ignorance and presuppositional antipathy towards theism in general, surely you can't be agnostic (unless by fluke) -- so I'm guessing you're an atheist ? ;-)
 
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fragtion said:
I guess this statment pretty much proves conclusively that you didn't read any of my posts AT ALL. I'm not a Muslim, I am a Christian. I guess you just can't tell the difference? (Not surprising given that you generalize them into the same bubble despite even leaking an admittance that they aren't both guilty in the same fundamental ways)
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Nope, you just totally ignored or was unable to understand the Serbia / Kosovo example I gave.

I apologize if I got your religion wrong. It is hard to tell the symptoms of different irrational beliefs from time to time.
 
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