Anti-Vaxxers, will you abandon your stance ?

lexity

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That's a lot of medical "professionals".

Posture it any way you like, they're anti-vax.
In a free society, you would be free to choose badly, and restricted from imposing the cost of your bad decisions onto others.

It wouldn't matter that one doctor was more "professional" than another. You would be free to choose.

In current, mixed-mongrel economies of the West, on the other hand, the State decides who is "professional" enough for the 'hapless' individual... who is deemed incapable of deciding for himself.

Infantilism does not lead to pretty outcomes. But if that is your preferred system, go for it. I won't stand in your way. Just leave me out, and everyone else who prefers to live under a system that requires individuals pay attention to who they choose to associate with, with bad choices left unsubsidized by the State.
 

rustypup

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you would be free to choose badly
It's a poor argument you're taking a stab at here given that this "choice" will absolutely impede on other's freedom from being infected up the whazoo by your disease-riddled progeny.

Your argument holds zero candles against facts. Stop playing the faux-libertarian card and proudly admit you hate children and want to see them dying in droves from perfectly preventable diseases.

Not being nasty here, just prefer people quit couching their rabidly delusional distrust of science in philosophical double-speak.
 

lexity

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272
So they would actually have the vaccination, provided govt doesn't force them to ?

Like this ?

View attachment 815353
I'm not addressing what they would or wouldn't do, in the absence of coercion. I'm saying coercion - political power - is a one-way street. There is no going back. No reverse-gear.

As has been said before: If you are prepared to give up a little freedom for a little security, you deserve neither. My God, man, don't you read history or economics from the 19th and 20th centuries?

I'm saying you can't call yourself a free society if you can legally compel others to do what you want them to do, without them having given consent in the first place. In every instance in which an oppressor came to power, a compromise was made which was based on assertion that it was for 'the greater good'.

Now, don't get me wrong... if you want to live in a society which consists of only people who have agreed to be vaccinated under certain, stipulated conditions., I have absolutely no problem with that. But I expect the same courtesy and civility in return.

You can separate. Divorce is a wonderful thing. If you don't agree with a group of people, you can get a divorce... its called 'secession'.

I just don't see any excuse for not acquiring consent before you interact with anyone. As far as I know, there is no justification for the initiation of force.
 

daveza

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I'm saying you can't call yourself a free society if you can legally compel others to do what you want them to do.
But we do them every day - they are normally called laws.

Nobody asks us if we want to abide by laws or even if we want laws.

So why do people want to be asked if they want vaccines but they never say well nobody asked me if I want to pay taxes ?
 

ToxicBunny

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I'm not addressing what they would or wouldn't do, in the absence of coercion. I'm saying coercion - political power - is a one-way street. There is no going back. No reverse-gear.

As has been said before: If you are prepared to give up a little freedom for a little security, you deserve neither. My God, man, don't you read history or economics from the 19th and 20th centuries?

I'm saying you can't call yourself a free society if you can legally compel others to do what you want them to do, without them having given consent in the first place. In every instance in which an oppressor came to power, a compromise was made which was based on assertion that it was for 'the greater good'.

Now, don't get me wrong... if you want to live in a society which consists of only people who have agreed to be vaccinated under certain, stipulated conditions., I have absolutely no problem with that. But I expect the same courtesy and civility in return.

You can separate. Divorce is a wonderful thing. If you don't agree with a group of people, you can get a divorce... its called 'secession'.

I just don't see any excuse for not acquiring consent before you interact with anyone. As far as I know, there is no justification for the initiation of force.
So in your head you think every idiot should sign a consent to get vaccinated? This same bunch of idiots who believe stupid shyte on Youtube....
 

lexity

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Jan 31, 2020
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272
It's a poor argument you're taking a stab at here given that this "choice" will absolutely impede on other's freedom from being infected up the whazoo by your disease-riddled progeny.

Your argument holds zero candles against facts. Stop playing the faux-libertarian card and proudly admit you hate children and want to see them dying in droves from perfectly preventable diseases.

Not being nasty here, just prefer people quit couching their rabidly delusional distrust of science in philosophical double-speak.
Science-by-decree doesn't satisfy a requirement for confidence, it satisfies a requirement for obedience and compliance.... in the absence of confidence.

What we have in the West is a remnant of a free market in science. Increasingly, the State has acquired the role of choosing what is science and what is pseudoscience.

For anyone who has eyes to see, that's a giant conflict of interest.

It has acquired this role by fear-mongering the consumer out of it. Which is why the West has increasingly consisted of overgrown children, to be blunt, rather than responsible adults acting in their individual interests.
 

lexity

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Jan 31, 2020
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272
So in your head you think every idiot should sign a consent to get vaccinated? This same bunch of idiots who believe stupid shyte on Youtube....
We are all potential idiots running amok. The best defense is to legalize secession. That way you get to choose the rules you - and your clan -prefer to live under and be bound to, legally.

If people don't comply after having opted in, they would be punishable under the law.

Instead of scraping through at the polls with 50%+1 majority you could have 100% or close to it.

There is no reason we cannot have this going on in the world. None whatsoever. It's a cat that those with a fetish for controlling others dare not let out of the bag.
 

lexity

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But we do them every day - they are normally called laws.

Nobody asks us if we want to abide by laws or even if we want laws.

So why do people want to be asked if they want vaccines but they never say well nobody asked me if I want to pay taxes ?
Yes, laws are fine and there's no reason you shouldn't be free to choose laws you are prepared to be bound by.

'Nobody asks us if we want to abide by laws or even if we want laws.'

Nobody asks us if we would rather live under a different set of laws, if we find a bunch of laws unacceptible, morally contemptible, irresponsible, economically wasteful etc.

I have no problem with laws. You are probably mistaking my views for those on the Left.
 

daveza

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Good, then if you have no problems with laws why do you have a problem with vaccines ?
 

lexity

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Jan 31, 2020
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'So why do people want to be asked if they want vaccines but they never say well nobody asked me if I want to pay taxes ?'

In my view that's an excellent question. They should.
 

lexity

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Good, then if you have no problems with laws why do you have a problem with vaccines ?
I don't have a problem with laws and nor do I have a problem with vaccines. I have a problem with compulsion... that includes compulsory vaccines.
 

Cray

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Yes, laws are fine and there's no reason you shouldn't be free to choose laws you are prepared to be bound by.
If people are free to chose what they will obey or not then it's not really a law is it?
 
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