Any ANC supporters on this forum?

[siphox]

Priceless....you missed what he was saying completely and then compliment yourself on it! ROFLMAO

Tell me why the DA is best for SA?

 

[LeetStone]

Be specific, words are not expensive.

Oh but they are, thanks to your ANC's personal friend Ivy Matsepe-Cassaburri.

 

[siphox]

Essentially thats exactly what it comes down to as that is how it has been implemented. All whites want is equality, no preferential treatment...just equality. Funny...this seems familiar somehow

Unfortunately having skills means nothing if no one will appoint you because of the colour of your skin....and then government always blames skill shortages for their shortcomings. *sigh*

You didnt have problem with skin colour during apartheid.
Its good to know you nkow how it feels to be judged on the amount of pigmentation in your skin.
You guys are having it easy, we blacks were basically restrctied in all areas of our lives. We could not participate in the economy, that is why we are so poor today.
We could not move around our own country as we pleased, we were thrown to poor unproductive lands in the bantustants.
We were whipped and hanged.
Our education was substanded.
All this suffering and torture because of our skin colour.

You must understand that the reason behind race in apartheid and now are different. In apartheid it was oppression, today affairmative cation is for corrective measure. It is also amoral obligation to any government thta comes into power to make sure blacks get preference.
Any party that says no to this, is living a lie.
ANC lives in reality.

 

[siphox]

Oh but they are, thanks to your ANC's personal friend Ivy Matsepe-Cassaburri.

Thanks to her indeed, here you are having no problems communicating with me over the net.
Seacom is coming man, hang on tight, DLS prices are going to fall like rain.
The ANC will take good care of you.

 

[siphox]

siphox is definetly no Malcolm X

Thanx for acknowledging Malcom X, read that black literature and learn a thing or two about us, the black race.

 

[QX6700RULZ]

Sorry but i somehow doubt that the American "black race" will agree with or support what is happening to this country due to gross mismanagement.

In the States you do not see people killing each other just because they speak another language.

They are centuries ahead of you so rather do not put yourself in the same basket as them, you insult them.

 

[icyrus]

It is also amoral obligation to any government thta comes into power to make sure blacks get preference.
Any party that says no to this, is living a lie.
ANC lives in reality.

Your sense of entitlement is quite humorous.

Regardless, let the anc run the country into the ground with your absolute blindness and stupidity.

People get the government they deserve. Just like the Zimbabweans got what they deserve, so shall you.

 

[siphox]

Siphox.

There was a time when I was very grateful to the ANC, for following a vision for a harmonious South Africa, for not taking reprisals out on whites, for accomplishing a peaceful transition to democracy, and for creating a country that was working. I was quite happy to say openly that I thought the ANC was doing a good job. This was during Mbeki's first term of office.

My perceptions have changed greatly, not in small part due to Mbeki.
I found Mbeki to be a very weak man. Not only was he highly insecure which made him defensive. This was manifest by the typical attitude of whenever attacked on any issue, responding by playing the race card, rather than look at whether the criticism was valid. This has been debated many times over - AIDS, Telecoms, Zimbabwe etc...

Under Mbeki's lack of leadership, it also became apparent that the ANC lost its moral compass. The division between business and the ANC became very blurred, with many politicians using their political influence to gain prestigious positions on the boards of top companies, with little regard for the fact that they were business and financially illiterate. In short, what happened was a scramble for riches under the guise of BEE occurred.

Mbeki also did his level best to remove anyone who posed a threat to his leadership (here, think Sexwale, Ramaphosa etc...) so any potentially good leadership was outed, and we were left with the likes of Tshabalala-Msimang, Mfeketo, Matseppi-Casaburri, Erwin, Nqakula. These people were yes-men. People who didn't criticise Mbeki and were rewarded for loyalty, not performance.

Lastly, Mbeki created the void for Jacob Zuma - a popularist, who is a complete political chameleon. Given Zuma's speeches so far, he has pandered to every group he has spoken to, often making contradictory statements. Such a man, cannot in my opinion be trusted.

Look closely at the ANC, and you will not see the same organisation which consisted of people like Biko, Mandela and Thambo. It is a different organisation with a different agenda, and therefore shouldn't command loyalty for its struggle against apartheid.

For these reasons I cannot vote for the ANC.

I hold my point about your selective responses. You have chosen not to respond to many valid points raised by me, and as such, I cannot find much to recommend your viewpoint.

I would however, recommend that you think long and hard about whether you want to be in a country ruled by a person who has not revealed his agenda, and who considers himself important enough to drive in police motorcades at 160km/h bullying any other drivers on the road.

These are some of the hallmarks of a dictator in the making.

If you feel unimpressed with Mbeki, its understandable.
The ANC has had many leaders, and not all of them were liked.
Some people didnt even like Tambo or Mandela.
However the ANC as an organisation hold the principles that every member that joins should uphold. But since we are dealing with humanbeings here, it it would be false to expect angelic behaviour through out. I am sure you have a couple of sins in your life yourself.

I will always vote ANc because I hvae great faith in them, they hvae done more than any man could do, they sacrificed their lives for me and today they are climbing a great mountain to give us a better life.
Today I am free to work in company owned by a white person and use the money to go to university and empower myself. In the past I could not do this, because of my skin colour. How can white people expect us to leave an organisation that has done a lot and still strives to do so even today.

All those RDP houses they hvae built for us, clinics, water, elecrticity. If we are unhappy, we can demostrate peacful. In the past we were shot like animals. White people hvae never really treated us nice at all. THey hvae been cruel to us as if we are not human. Now, of course aparthied is gone, but I doubt that its still not in the hearts of many whites who still express a lot of racist tendencies towards blacks. After such a long time of white violence against blacks, why would suddenly have great faith in a party like the DA, dominated by white people, what if I bring them back to power and bang, blacks are ill treated again.

History is testament to the ill mannererd way that whites have treated blacks-slavery, apartheid, colonialism. So why do I want to be lead by a white person. Its scares me.

The ANC is the only party that can lead SA and they have my vote next year because I know they love me. They have proved it with their blood.

 

[siphox]

Your sense of entitlement is quite humorous.

Regardless, let the anc run the country into the ground with your absolute blindness and stupidity.

People get the government they deserve. Just like the Zimbabweans got what they deserve, so shall you.

Its not about entitlement. Its about setting the wrongs of the past right.
The effects of having a poverty striken group in a country is that it leads to crime, and balcks are poverty striken, that is why so many of them do crime, hijacking, and all sorts of things to make a living.

If you dont address black issues, you won't tackle poverty and crime.

 

[siphox]

Sorry but i somehow doubt that the American "black race" will agree with or support what is happening to this country due to gross mismanagement.

In the States you do not see people killing each other just because they speak another language.

They are centuries ahead of you so rather do not put yourself in the same basket as them, you insult them.

Look whose talking, your people killed us because we were different. Are you not smart enough to realise that prejudice occurs in every society. Anyway its a good thing to know you are praising my black brothers in the USA. I will sure inform them about this, you hear.

 

[siphox]

HAHHAHHAA!!

We did this. ANC didn't listen. The scorpions are gone. Case closed. Democratic power...what a joke! There was an overwhelming majority vote (by the people) to keep the scorpions. So where are they?!

That's one of about 10000 reasons I will never vote for the ANC!

Your vote is not required. We get two thirds majority even without it. Vote DA or FF rather and strengthen the opposition and in so doing strengthening democracy.
I am sure you will feel better.

 

[icyrus]

Its not about entitlement. Its about setting the wrongs of the past right.
The effects of having a poverty striken group in a country is that it leads to crime, and balcks are poverty striken, that is why so many of them do crime, hijacking, and all sorts of things to make a living.

If you dont address black issues, you won't tackle poverty and crime.

You cannot fix the problems caused by racial prejudice by reinstating racial prejudice. It is shortsighted and ultimately destined to failure, just like nearly everything the ANC does.

 

[daveza]

White people hvae never really treated us nice at all.

Nothings irritates me more than garbage like this.

Were you even born during the height of apartheid ? How many whites suffered because of their support for the ANC - and you dare to dump us all together in the white-supremacist basket?

But keep going with your bigoted opinions - every post loses votes for your party, and the party which I, the white guy, have voted for since I was able to.

 

[marine1]

If not for white people, your mates in gvt would have nothing to pillage.

 

[Flanders]

Your vote is not required. We get two thirds majority even without it. Vote DA or FF rather and strengthen the opposition and in so doing strengthening democracy.
I am sure you will feel better.

So when your argument falls flat, you revert to telling me my vote is not required. How typical. good luck, sipho. At every future blunder made by the ANC, I'll reserve a special chuckle just for you.

 

[Tassidar]

It is also amoral obligation to any government thta comes into power to make sure blacks get preference.

Why? Please explain your answer very carefully, as a comment like this without justification is meaningless.

Incidentally, amoral means:

having no moral standards, restraints, or principles; unaware of or indifferent to questions of right or wrong: a completely amoral person.

If you feel unimpressed with Mbeki, its understandable.
The ANC has had many leaders, and not all of them were liked.
Some people didnt even like Tambo or Mandela.
However the ANC as an organisation hold the principles that every member that joins should uphold. But since we are dealing with humanbeings here, it it would be false to expect angelic behaviour through out. I am sure you have a couple of sins in your life yourself.

I will always vote ANc because I hvae great faith in them, they hvae done more than any man could do, they sacrificed their lives for me and today they are climbing a great mountain to give us a better life.
Today I am free to work in company owned by a white person and use the money to go to university and empower myself. In the past I could not do this, because of my skin colour. How can white people expect us to leave an organisation that has done a lot and still strives to do so even today.

All those RDP houses they hvae built for us, clinics, water, elecrticity. If we are unhappy, we can demostrate peacful. In the past we were shot like animals. White people hvae never really treated us nice at all. THey hvae been cruel to us as if we are not human. Now, of course aparthied is gone, but I doubt that its still not in the hearts of many whites who still express a lot of racist tendencies towards blacks. After such a long time of white violence against blacks, why would suddenly have great faith in a party like the DA, dominated by white people, what if I bring them back to power and bang, blacks are ill treated again.

History is testament to the ill mannererd way that whites have treated blacks-slavery, apartheid, colonialism. So why do I want to be lead by a white person. Its scares me.

The ANC is the only party that can lead SA and they have my vote next year because I know they love me. They have proved it with their blood.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance

How many Zimbabweans carried on voting for Zanu-PF, because it was the liberator, even as it ran the country into the ground. Zimbabwe was so focused on not having a white government, that it allowed blacks (and whites) to be far worse off than was ever the case under Smith. Ironic isn't it? Be careful of blind faith in a party, it can easily turn on you.

An organisation is in itself, not a person, and can't command loyalty. An idea can, a person can, but not an organisation, since if there were no people, there would be no organisation. Therefore, when deciding whether or not to be loyal to a party, it is a good idea to ask whether the people in the party are worth being loyal to i.e. would you trust those individuals who lead the party to do the best for you that they could. Would you trust Jacob Zuma, Julius Malema, Matthews Phosa etc... I for one, can't trust Zuma, not because he is black, but because of his actions and his words. He has been accused or rape and fraud. While you can argue that he hasn't been proven guilty, remember that this is not the same as being proven innocent - it only means that there was insufficient evidence to prove him guilty. In his speeches, he tells everyone exactly what they want to hear, even if this means changing his viewpoint numerous times.

The ANC hasn't sacrificied its life in to save you, only people in the ANC, and those people are clearly no longer members of the ANC.

How does the ANC show its love for you? What does it do, that makes you believe that it loves you? Remember, that it is easy to lie about loving someone - many relationships have failed because of this. You may say that they have proved it with their blood, but that was over 16 years ago. In 16 years, love can easily turn sour. So, how does the ANC still show you its love?

Incidentally, while it is quite easy to blame whites for treating you badly, in the history of Africa, whites are among the least offenders. The Arabs were operating slave trades long before the whites, and at least as brutally. I would wager too, that far more blacks have died at black hands in Africa than from white hands - look at Rwanda, DRC and even Zimbabwe (look up the 5th Brigade under Shiri where an estimated 20 000 civilians were killed). If a person goes from one abusive relationship straight into another, repeatedly, perhaps that person needs to look at themselves, rather than the perpetrator. Because when a person is a victim at heart, there will always be a perpetrator. Perhaps the next one for Africa will be China.

White people hvae never really treated us nice at all.

You realise of course that a significant number of people who voted, voted against apartheid. These were the DP supporters. And while it is easy to say, white people should have done more to end apartheid, what should they have done? Many people did do a great deal, and ended up in jail for it (Helen Zille being one such person), but many others chose not to fight, but to vote against apartheid (why should they fight, it wasn't their battle). Likewise, many black people chose not to fight against apartheid. Do you blame them for supporting apartheid? If you are consistent in your viewpoint, you will. And to this day, you will still find many white people who give up their time and money, in order to make black people's lives better. Are those people not being nice?

 

[daveza]

This argument is just too clear and logical, so it won't be answered.

Like many simple questions which the OP has chosen to ignore.

 

[boramk]

I will always vote ANc because I hvae great faith in them, they hvae done more than any man could do, they sacrificed their lives for me and today they are climbing a great mountain to give us a better life.
Today I am free to work in company owned by a white person and use the money to go to university and empower myself. In the past I could not do this, because of my skin colour.

You are completly oblivious to the fact that any post apartheid party would have allowed this, not just the ANC

 

[Plasticmonkey]

I want to ask something. Do Educated black people vote for the ANC?
I can see the appeal for poor black people to vote for their 'heroes' that can barely read or write, just like them (im not saying all ANC officials are uneducated like the majourity of their supporters) Take Zuma or that malema oke for example, I mean come on. Each time I see either of them make a speech I cant help but laugh.

I can understand that ur average black person will never vote DA for instance, (I wouldnt even vote fot them) But seriously, do Educated black people really believe that a guy with grade 6 under his belt is capable of running a country? Each time Zuma wears that Zulu outfit, I get embarrased with the thought of "damn imagine someone like Bush saw this, what must he think"

The ANC will win next year, because of the simple fact that the get votes from the majourity that is uneducated.

 

[grayston]

I want to ask something. Do Educated black people vote for the ANC?

...

The ANC will win next year, because of the simple fact that the get votes from the majourity that is uneducated.

Thing is, by that reasoning, either the ANC is keeping the population uneducated to win elections, or they're too stupid to figure out that strategy.

The influence of Zuma's grade 6 education means it's the latter. That's the only good thing I can find to say about the man.