Any ANC supporters on this forum?

[siphox]

Thing is, by that reasoning, either the ANC is keeping the population uneducated to win elections, or they're too stupid to figure out that strategy.

The influence of Zuma's grade 6 education means it's the latter. That's the only good thing I can find to say about the man.

We were smart enough to steal back the country right under your noses. Boo HOO

 

[Albereth]

...smart one.

Thank you, you are too kind.

And no, sucking up is not going to get you a job.

 

[Albereth]

We were smart enough to steal back the country right under your noses. Boo HOO

Or stupid enough to go along with the plan.

And now, having lost the 'smart ones', the ANC is losing voter support. Hmmm!

 

[dlk001]

Originally Posted by Plasticmonkey
Each time Zuma wears that Zulu outfit, I get embarrased with the thought of "damn imagine someone like Bush saw this, what must he think"

I'd be embarrassed if anyone considered Bush's opinion serious. I doubt he could tell the difference between a Zulu outfit and the one from a Saudi President.

 

[Albereth]

Luckily, Bush could not tell the difference between a Zulu outfit and the one from a Saudi President.

LOL - he is probably thinking that Mrs Bush also has a leopard print set of knickers but doesn't look half as hot.

 

[siphox]

You cannot fix the problems caused by racial prejudice by reinstating racial prejudice. It is shortsighted and ultimately destined to failure, just like nearly everything the ANC does.

Prejudice? That is not what the ANC is doing man, you misunderstand us, if you were white and apartheid didnt happen, AA and BEE would not be necessary.

Until the day you accept the importance of BEE and AA, you will always live in pain. But since you are white and are so smart, I am sure you can find a way to counteract AA and BEE.

How does it lead to failure, so many blacks are doing well because of BEE and AA. What you talking about?

 

[alloytoo]

We were smart enough to steal back the country right under your noses. Boo HOO

Did you vote in the referendum?

 

[grayston]

We were smart enough to steal back the country right under your noses. Boo HOO

Well, that's democracy for you. Intelligence isn't a prerequisite for voting. Why do you think they ask people to just put an 'X'?

That's not to say that voting rights should be revoked from the under-educated. But you would expect the government to realise that education would greatly benefit the entire country - and more than just once every 5 years. Keeping people stupid in order to guarantee voter support is ... well ... stupid.

Also, I was given to believe that stealing is a BAD thing. But then, I don't count Mr Jacob "100%" Showerboy as one of my personal heroes.

 

[Tassidar]

This argument is just too clear and logical, so it won't be answered.

Like many simple questions which the OP has chosen to ignore.

+1. Truly a well thought out and excellent post by Tassidir and I can't agree more.

Thanks guys.

 

[grayston]

Prejudice? That is not what the ANC is doing man, you misunderstand us, if you were white and apartheid didnt happen, AA and BEE would not be necessary.

Until the day you accept the importance of BEE and AA, you will always live in pain. But since you are white and are so smart, I am sure you can find a way to counteract AA and BEE.

How does it lead to failure, so many blacks are doing well because of BEE and AA. What you talking about?

I accept the importance of AA and BEE. And BBBEE. And all the other nice names the ANC came up with. There's no getting away from - the imbalances of the past need to be corrected.

You do it like this:

1. Equal education for all.
2. Equal rights for all.
3. Sunset clause for "corrective action".

The ANC scores 0/3 on that list, making the affirmative action they practice nothing more than an extension of the racial prejudices taught to them by apartheid.

It's ironic that some of what the ANC says is true. Apartheid isn't dead. It lives on in the minds of the ANC members, who still can't accept that your skin colour shouldn't define who you are.

 

[Plasticmonkey]

Poverty strikes you the same whether you are educated or not.
There is still so much poverty in SA, but many people are living in RDP's and have got lights and clean water and hope for more. That is why the ANC is voted in. You don't need a degree to feel or not feel hunger.

What are you talking about? Please answer the question... I really dont know why you are bringing up hunger and poverty when im talking about education...

 

[icyrus]

Prejudice? That is not what the ANC is doing man, you misunderstand us, if you were white and apartheid didnt happen, AA and BEE would not be necessary.

While it seems pointless to carry on this debate at this time seeing as how mentally unprepared you are, I can't help but clarify what should be painfully obvious to any with a mind and a will to use it:

BEE and the ANC's version of AA are all about prejudice and discrimination. It is about giving blacks preference over all other races. So you can see the similarities.

Until the day you accept the importance of BEE and AA, you will always live in pain. But since you are white and are so smart, I am sure you can find a way to counteract AA and BEE.

AA and BEE are not important. They are the politically expedient solutions that the ANC chose to implement, despite the fact that they will do more harm than good in the end. The ANC has shown time and again that they are utterly incapable of long term planning or thought.

How does it lead to failure, so many blacks are doing well because of BEE and AA. What you talking about?

Ignorance. BEE is making a few well connected black people super wealthy but its not changing the status quo. Neither is it good for the long term health of the country.

This topic has been discussed to death here and if you are really interested in widening your perspective (I seriously doubt it) search for some of the older threads in this section.

In the end, you will never get me to agree that racial discrimination is the correct solution to any problem. No matter how happy you are to try and justify it.

 

[capetownguy]

Listen guys, while we can't expect everybody to be in favour of AA and BEE, please don't even begin to try and make any comparison between apartheid and South Africa today, claiming that people were somehow better off pre 1994.

Whether you're pro or anti ANC, its beyond ignorant and extremely disrespectful since you clearly do not even begin to understand the depths of pain and misery, not to mention humiliation of millions for decades. It displays an extreme narrow mindedness that should not be tolerated at these forums along with racism, attacks on various religions etc.

Jacob Zuma is what he is, a despicable and uneducated human being.
This doesn't imply that he will do any worse with regards to our big 3, Aids, crime and unemployment. As far as I know our ex-president was in denial about each of the above.

 

[daveza]

I have followed this thread start to finish, noting the questions and the answers from the OP, or more correctly the lack of answers to specific questions.

The refusal to accept any fault on behalf of our black brethren is an opinion that the poster is entitled to.

The repeated attacks on whites, the inference that all whites supported apartheid, and the contempt for any suggestion that some whites supported the struggle is not acceptable.

It is a rare occasion that I give up playing the ball and not the man.

Siphox, you are a racist and in my opinion a disgrace to everything that Nelson Mandela, the ANC, and all those in the struggle fought for.

 

[icyrus]

Listen guys, while we can't expect everybody to be in favour of AA and BEE, please don't even begin to try and make any comparison between apartheid and South Africa today, claiming that people were somehow better off pre 1994.

Who has done so?

It seems to me you are making something of nothing.

 

[Flanders]

I've seen this very same argument on the internet so many times. Stupidly, I somehow involve myself in them time and time again. Siphox's views are a perfect blueprint for the pro-ANC, anti-white, anti-west, Mugabe-did-no-wrong, it's-discrimination-but-it-aint-so-bad, you-owe-me-this-and-that way of looking at things. Sometimes I could swear that there is one serial troll roaming the net spewing forth the like of what we've endured throughout this thread.

I'll say this and then I'm out of here: siphox, it's so apparent that you stand by your views because you personally benefit from the ANC's policies to the point that you're either blinded or completely oblivious to the truth. I'd like to hear the opinion of some of the poor people in the black communities. Do they feel the same? If what you're saying is the truth then I expect we'd be hearing from them any time now to back you up. I mean, they have the means now to hop online and come have a chat, right? Unfortunately we won't be hearing anything because all these wonderous gifts of upliftment only exist for people like yourself.

PS. - I guarantee that most of the folk here couldn't give two hoots about having a white government. It's not what we want. We want equality and accountability, sipho.

 

[3G4me]

Sipho - you are what they call an extreme ideologist... living on the beliefs and promises of an unrealistic and crazy doctrain which has been exaggerated and extended for certain party's benefits.

Apartheid has been over for a long time, 80% of whites voted to end it. Why do you hate them so much when they helped end your people's suffering, it was the select few who created it, and they are mostly either dead or overseas?

Somewhat like the islamic ideologists that we just saw slaughter innocent people in Mumbai, purely because of a stupid belief. They blindly believe their ideas are correct and are completely closed off to any alternatives and the realities. Brainwashed...

When you say Africa was "VERY, VERY happy" before the whites came along and created water pipes, electricity, roads, etc. Just look north at what is happening 3 decades after the end of white rule and the petty corrupt dictatorship that took over... water has dried up, electricity is non existant. People are dying like flies.

If blacks were so happy (all of you here now weren't even here, and have not even spoken to anyone who was - so how the heck do you know this?) then why didn't they carry on their lives as before once their "freedom" was won? Why did they aspire to have what they didn't have, why do they still aspire to have what they don't, even with their "freedom" so hard fought now won? Why are they not happy yet without everything that the "westerners" have? Why do they want all and more that the "white people" have, jobs, education, opportunity? You say they needed for nothing and were happy with their lot, so why are they crying and protesting and playing the victim still?

If they were that happy, why did they trade minerals, slaves, land etc. for a pathetic mirror?

Do some real history reading, not just ANC ideology, which is based on issues that ended nearly 20 years ago. They are trying to modernise and regurgitate these facts, and are just losing credibility and destroying their own history in this act.

Then try to make arguments based on intelligent fact and not rhetoric and tired old accusations.

 

[boramk]

But I only believe in the ANC, they have got international favour and are well known. And not everyone will do it like the ANC, BEE and AA are importatant and I dont hear, the FF plus or DA saying anything in support of it.

Thats cause the FF and DA know AA and BEE is wrong.

Your argument is flawed. You agree with me that South Africa is a new country with equal opportunities for everyone, why are whites opressed?

It shouldn't be seen as a requirment for "past mistakes" as yyou point out time and time again.

 

[boramk]

In a way you agree with me that we are all human and the same. No matter where you are from or the colour of your skin. so why did whites see us as apes and oppressed us?

To be ****ing honesty, and yes I'm pissed off, because of how you think. Look at you. There can be no argument against you and any rational critcial thinking is ignored.

Kthx I'm over this thread

 

[boramk]

Closing argument:

Western countries: Backward places with crumbling infrastructure and economy
African countries: Economic super powers GEE ****ING WIZ

Screw white people, honestly, who do you guys think you are telling us what to do?

SOD OFF