Any ANC supporters on this forum?

[daveza]

Taking cover deep underground preparing for Marine1's response.

 

[Flanders]

THe ANC is smart and has realised this. THat is why RSA's economy greww back on back for five years, better than any other time in South Africa.

The world wouldn't have anything to do with us prior to '94 so naturally the economy would reflect huge growth once we became favourable with the rest of the planet.

 

[grayston]

I am an ANC supporter. A very strong one for that matter. The ANC is perceived as being good tro blacks only which is false.

You are quite correct.

The reality is that the ANC is good to a few well-connected people of all colours, at the expense of their main constituency, which is poor and black.

 

[Ecco]

So.... to me this is proof. There are no intelligent ANC supporters. Not even one.

Not being a part of this forum or for that matter willing to take a a lot of abuse by admitting it, does not mean there are no intelligent anc supporters. To draw a statement like that is crazy.

Just as crazy as i could counter your argument by coming to the conclusion that they are intelligent because they know the abuse they will come under if they do own up to it.

With a lot of the type on this forum the intelligent one would be hesitant to own up to being a supporter on this forum. Look at the posts in this thread up till now - they lean mostly in one direction.

So, your statement is just whack and so is mine above. Cant be making conclusions like that my man

 

[milomak]

i'm sure someone in government or the could whip out stats like access to housing, education, electricity, water to show the anc has had positive impacts. clearly more could be done though.

 

[boramk]

I am an ANC supporter. A very strong one for that matter. The ANC is perceived as being good to blacks only which is false. All the economic policies that the ANC has put foward have benefited mostly whites because they are the major players in the economy, if you are the poor its not possible or easy for you to feel the effects of a positive economy it takes time.
But it is a good thing because this means that hopefully whites will have more money to spend and there fore increase the buying power of the coutry which leads to the expansion of the economy and in turn the prro get jobs, but this of course takes time. THe ANC is smart and has realised this. THat is why RSA's economy greww back on back for five years, better than any other time in South Africa, but ofcourse the white population in south affrica is small, their buying power is not very significant to make super impact, so which population do you target to make sure the economy grows, the largest populatio which is blacks, through affirmative action and BEE, blacks are quickly enriched and skilled so that they become players in the economy to shooting the country up to the stars, and this has happened, the black middle class exploded, more and more blacks earn big dollar these days and blacks spend a lot. And in turn since black people are close knit and they recognise family ties, they are able to help each other. So if your auntie is in the black middle calss and you are poor, your auntie will uplift you, jsut as an example. So BEE and Affirmative cation might appear anti-white at first glance but if you look close actaully whites are the ones who benefit a lot from the expanded market of black middle class who will buy from business that are mostly owned by whites.
Affirmative Action does not hurt whites, a survey shows that whites are able to countercat this by going in private business instead of seeking employment, this is another good thing, by creating private businesses, that is starting their own companies, more people get employed, and since some of these business will need government as their buyers, they will need to have black people as employees, and so more blacks get employed and gain skills and the whites make their money. Tell me if the African National Congress is not the best party to run this country and make me laught. You empower the blacks, you empower the country because the black are the majority.

Do I have to reply to this?
Not only is it stupid, theres no paragrpahs

 

[.Froot.]

I am an ANC supporter. A very strong one for that matter. The ANC is perceived as being good to blacks only which is false. All the economic policies that the ANC has put foward have benefited mostly whites because they are the major players in the economy, if you are the poor its not possible or easy for you to feel the effects of a positive economy it takes time.
But it is a good thing because this means that hopefully whites will have more money to spend and there fore increase the buying power of the coutry which leads to the expansion of the economy and in turn the prro get jobs, but this of course takes time. THe ANC is smart and has realised this. THat is why RSA's economy greww back on back for five years, better than any other time in South Africa, but ofcourse the white population in south affrica is small, their buying power is not very significant to make super impact, so which population do you target to make sure the economy grows, the largest populatio which is blacks, through affirmative action and BEE, blacks are quickly enriched and skilled so that they become players in the economy to shooting the country up to the stars, and this has happened, the black middle class exploded, more and more blacks earn big dollar these days and blacks spend a lot. And in turn since black people are close knit and they recognise family ties, they are able to help each other. So if your auntie is in the black middle calss and you are poor, your auntie will uplift you, jsut as an example. So BEE and Affirmative cation might appear anti-white at first glance but if you look close actaully whites are the ones who benefit a lot from the expanded market of black middle class who will buy from business that are mostly owned by whites.
Affirmative Action does not hurt whites, a survey shows that whites are able to countercat this by going in private business instead of seeking employment, this is another good thing, by creating private businesses, that is starting their own companies, more people get employed, and since some of these business will need government as their buyers, they will need to have black people as employees, and so more blacks get employed and gain skills and the whites make their money. Tell me if the African National Congress is not the best party to run this country and make me laught. You empower the blacks, you empower the country because the black are the majority.

I have to disagree.... really, I do.

1) BEE and Affirmative action has not once, ever, made something better for me before it was put in place. I cannot go an apply for just any bursary, now I have to look for one that is not "advantageous to previously disadvantaged". I cannot go an apply for just any job... companies now have to meet "BEE targets"... and "job application for previously disadvantaged people only. FAIL number 1.

2) Private business? Just as an example, take the retail market- there are so many private estate agents that more than half of them do not survive. If there had been only a handful of estate agencies, all of them would survive... so there is your second FAIL.

3) I took my car for a service and a black businessman was in the lounge where I sat. He told me about one stupid thing that black people do - they buy cars they cannot afford. I've seen this too. People staying in Mamelodi driving R800'000 cars but living in shacks. The whole family cashes in on the payments. This is FAIL number 3.

4) What I have noticed about the ANC that fails even their own people, is they always promise to get housing for everyone. I don't need to remind anybody about the current housing situation. The ANC promises jobs and the promises keep flowing. Just in one corner of our area there are over 50 jobless black people everyday.... which increases crime in the neighbourhoods. FAIL number 4.

5) Yes, there was a boom in the economy of the middle class black people. Their net worth went from under a million to in some cases over a billion. They only had to leech from the BEE and affirmative action legislations... but the lower class people haven't had anything come their way. Well nothing good, that is. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. FAIL number 5.

I think you need to rethink your support for the ANC... honestly. But hey, don't listen to me. "Affirmative action doesn't harm the whites"

 

[brixton tower]

I really want to know if there are any ANC supporters on this forum. Please speak up and tell us why you think the ANC is good for SA. I find it really hard to see it all from both sides of the story.

Dunno whether I would support the ANC now but in the past they spoke to the issues that were relevant to most black people like opening up economic oppertunities and ending discrimination. The only beef I had with Thabo Mbeki was the Aids issue and how he allowed a culture of impunity to set into the civil service- especially amongst ministers and DG's.

Instead of having the courage to fire people he simply allowed them to continue on their destructive paths for the sake of political expediency and his survival. This also allowed a culture of corruption in the public service especially at the Department of Home Affairs.

The DA will never get my vote because even though I like Helen Zille but some in her party's constituency still think that apartheid was right and have not plans for SA apart from maintaining what little is left of white privilege.

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

The DA will never get my vote because even though I like Helen Zille but some in her party's constituency still think that apartheid was right and have not plans for SA apart from maintaining what little is left of white privilege.

That is so ignorant a view .... can you back it up with facts? No?

 

[Tassidar]

Dunno whether I would support the ANC now but in the past they spoke to the issues that were relevant to most black people like opening up economic oppertunities and ending discrimination. The only beef I had with Thabo Mbeki was the Aids issue and how he allowed a culture of impunity to set into the civil service- especially amongst ministers and DG's.

Instead of having the courage to fire people he simply allowed them to continue on their destructive paths for the sake of political expediency and his survival. This also allowed a culture of corruption in the public service especially at the Department of Home Affairs.

The DA will never get my vote because even though I like Helen Zille but some in her party's constituency still think that apartheid was right and have not plans for SA apart from maintaining what little is left of white privilege.

I seem to remember that the NP was dissolved into the ANC. The NP and the DP had a massive culture clash, which is why they never worked together.

Historically too, the DP was always anti-apartheid.

I'm not quite sure on what you base your argument on. AFAICS, most people who come up with this argument are black, and use it as an excuse to justify a racist viewpoint.

 

[Moederloos]

The DA will never get my vote because even though I like Helen Zille but some in her party's constituency still think that apartheid was right and have not plans for SA apart from maintaining what little is left of white privilege.

lol - the clang of machine gun chants must be affecting your thought processes.

 

[AvOk]

Dunno whether I would support the ANC now but in the past they spoke to the issues that were relevant to most black people like opening up economic oppertunities and ending discrimination. The only beef I had with Thabo Mbeki was the Aids issue and how he allowed a culture of impunity to set into the civil service- especially amongst ministers and DG's.

Instead of having the courage to fire people he simply allowed them to continue on their destructive paths for the sake of political expediency and his survival. This also allowed a culture of corruption in the public service especially at the Department of Home Affairs.

The DA will never get my vote because even though I like Helen Zille but some in her party's constituency still think that apartheid was right and have not plans for SA apart from maintaining what little is left of white privilege.

Is that your only beef? The list is endless, as for the DA comment, where did you suck that from?

 

[boramk]

The DA will never get my vote because even though I like Helen Zille but some in her party's constituency still think that apartheid was right and have not plans for SA apart from maintaining what little is left of white privilege.

You.Are.A.Dumbass.

PLEASE and I mean PLEASE quote me once when she said that, or any DA members (and there are black DA members) said that.

 

[dlk001]

So BEE and Affirmative cation might appear anti-white at first glance but if you look close actaully whites are the ones who benefit a lot from the expanded market of black middle class who will buy from business that are mostly owned by whites.

Well said! In my experience of BEE deals in Mining and to a lesser extent Civils, I've seen exactly what you say. And, I don't see anything wrong with that because both parties benefit. I just wish there was more skills transfer than we seeing.

 

[Sly21C]

I am an ANC supporter. A very strong one for that matter.

To be honest with you, I'm very impressed. I'm actually glad that there are still smart ANC supporters that are still around.

The ANC is perceived as being good to blacks only which is false. All the economic policies that the ANC has put forward have benefited mostly whites because they are the major players in the economy, if you are the poor its not possible or easy for you to feel the effects of a positive economy it takes time.

I also think that the policies that the ANC have made a decade ago for example were made with good intentions for both the black and the white people.

So BEE and Affirmative action might appear anti-white at first glance but if you look close actually whites are the ones who benefit a lot from the expanded market of black middle class who will buy from business that are mostly owned by whites.
Affirmative Action does not hurt whites, a survey shows that whites are able to counteract this by going in private business instead of seeking employment, this is another good thing, by creating private businesses, that is starting their own companies, more people get employed, and since some of these business will need government as their buyers, they will need to have black people as employees, and so more blacks get employed and gain skills and the whites make their money.

I think BEE and AA were implemented with good intentions and were not meant to alienate the white minority. These policies were done because the government wanted to undo the past and also to make blacks part of the economy by giving them skills and therefore those blacks will hopefully earn money and buy and contribute to the economy. The quickest way to do this (make blacks part of the economy) is through BEE and AA.

But the problem with that is that white feel alienated, they can't get jobs easily as they used to during apartheid and most of them leave this country as they don't feel that the ANC doesn't want them. And the problem with whites leaving this country is that they take their skills with and that has a big effect on the operation of SA.

I watched 50/50 about 2/3 weeks ago and most municipalities (I'd say more than 70%) do not have engineers, and that will affect water distribution and maintenance in a big way in the near future, it's already a problem but not a critical one yet.

The beef I have with the ANC is that they know AA and BEE are making white people leave this country and therefore their skills but they still don't want to admit that BEE and AA do more harm than good. I think BEE and AA are a good thing for the black majority but for now I think more harm is done. Look at Eskom for example.

I disagree with your point that BEE and AA doesn't hurt whites, I think it does otherwise they wouldn't leave this country for Australia for example. I think the 2 biggest reasons why whites leave this country is 1. Crime and 2. AA.

While it is true and good that whites counteract AA and BEE through starting their own businesses and therefore employing blacks and giving them skills, not all whites can start a business and so most of those whites are the ones who leave or think of leaving or who hate the ANC for everything that it has done.

the black middle class exploded, more and more blacks earn big dollar these days and blacks spend a lot. And in turn since black people are close knit and they recognise family ties, they are able to help each other. So if your auntie is in the black middle class and you are poor, your auntie will uplift you, just as an example.

Well in most cases the auntie won't help the nephew or niece. These days in the black community it's every man for himself or herself. All the aunties or the uncles or the old cousin do is offer you advice but that's it. The black community have a tendency to be jealous of other people's success and that's what puts us as blacks backwards. Read a book called "Capitalist Ni**er" and you'll know what I mean.

Tell me if the African National Congress is not the best party to run this country and make me laught. You empower the blacks; you empower the country because the black are the majority.

I think the ANC HAD the best policies for most people of all walks of life but things changed since 10 years ago and these policies have to also change.

Right now the ANC's leadership is full of people who want to make their wallets bigger. Their priorities are not with the poor blacks anymore; their priorities are "how can I make money so I can buy that BMW 745i? I know, commit fraud by taking a bribe from this guy after giving him a tender". The ANC has changed during the past 14 years from being a liberation movement to being a party were you can get rich and make lots of money. It's not about uplifting the poor anymore, it's about how much money can I make from doing this?

I'm not reading that until you create some paragraphs. It's like a wall of text.

Also, you double posted.

Double Fail.

I have to say that I am extremely disappointed with you and your argument, siphox made points and I was expecting you to engage with him intellectually instead of trying to insult him.

I used to love the ANC and their policies but if you hear stories about Julius Malema being driven in an E Class then you have to wonder whose interests do these ANC leaders have in their hearts now. Infrastructure in this country is slowly falling apart and the social system is not going in the right direction and our education system is not good at all, our skills are becoming limited but little is being done to change or address that because these newly rich ANC or former ANC members like their new lifestyles and therefore don't want to change the status quo. So the (new, thuggish, money hungry) ANC has lost my support, not only are they arrogant, but they just don't give a f**k anymore for the fellow South Africans (sorry for my use of language ))

All in all, I think that the ANC will never impress white people because the way I see it, white people enjoyed the European type of lifestyle under apartheid because the government then had their best interest at heart. But the current government wants to pull blacks out of poverty and will in the process neglect whites a little bit. So the way I see it, if white people want things to be the way they were under apartheid (meaning their lifestyle and the safety of their homes since criminals were only contained in townships by apartheid police and therefore whites didn't experience crime during apartheid) then I suggest they go to Australia or any other first world country. Obviously I don't want white people to leave (I don't want my white colleague to leave for Australia next month because SA needs his skills) but I think for your own peace of mind it may be a better decision.

 

[EtienneK]

I have to say that I am extremely disappointed with you and your argument, siphox made points and I was expecting you to engage with him intellectually instead of trying to insult him.

I'm glad you value my opinion so much that you actually expect it from me.

 

[TheHiveMind]

Apartheid could not conceivably come back without it deriving from the international world who suppressed it in the first place. Not gonna happen.

Of course if you vote DA they would have to put most of their effeorts into helping the masses. Not rich white people. If they helped whites first, the masses wouldn't vote for them again and that wouldn't be in their interests. The excuses I hear are just weak attempts at supposed ignorance. I don't believe anyone on this forum REALLY believes the DA wouldn't try to do the job properly. I think people are scared they WOULD infact do the job properly.

 

[marine1]

You.Are.A.Dumbass.

PLEASE and I mean PLEASE quote me once when she said that, or any DA members (and there are black DA members) said that.

He cannot as it I absolute rubbish

 

[Sly21C]

Apartheid could not conceivably come back without it deriving from the international world who suppressed it in the first place. Not gonna happen.

Of course if you vote DA they would have to put most of their effeorts into helping the masses. Not rich white people. If they helped whites first, the masses wouldn't vote for them again and that wouldn't be in their interests. The excuses I hear are just weak attempts at supposed ignorance. I don't believe anyone on this forum REALLY believes the DA wouldn't try to do the job properly. I think people are scared they WOULD infact do the job properly.

I think perception plays a bit part in the DA not getting voted. Most black people I know of will not vote for the DA. There are many reasons for this:

1. Voting for the DA will be like disrespecting the ANC since they helped the black majority gain freedom, voting for the DA will mean that blacks are ungrateful to the ANC for what they have done so far. Giving people freedom is the biggest thing the ANC has ever done and the DA will never do something bigger than that. That's what I think most black people think.
2. Although people are free to choose to vote for whatever party, many of them feel voting for the ANC is the right thing to do and not voting for the ANC means and voting for the DA means you don't like blacks anymore and therefore like white people more.

Like it or not, the DA is perceived as a "rich white party", it doesn't matter if it isn't, what matters in the world of politics is perception and black people (me included) will think the DA will make policies beneficial to white interests mostly.

So people will continue to vote for the ANC because it is a left-wing black party and also because blacks perceive the ANC as a good party since it liberated them, it doesn't matter to blacks if Malema is insinuating violence or Zuma is a criminal or a rapist, that doesn't matter.

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

so in other words, Ignorance is Bliss .......