Any ideas, does Mbeki spend more time in or out of ZA?

[Skeptik]

Now you're venturing into the realms of cloud cuckoo land, JZ is hardly a statesman ... he's a local hero at best and one who thinks showers will prevent AIDS, at that.

This showers thing was blown out of proportion. He's not my hero or anything, but I would argue for fair comment. He didn't say showers would cure AIDS. He said it would reduce the risk of infection. If you've just had unsafe sex, what would be the first thing you do?? Common sense.

The trouble with JZ is that we don't really know him.

Yes I agree, but you forget that President Mbeki considers himself both statesman and scholar ... the mistake (made by both) is the same however ...

What he considers and what the truth is are two separate things. A statesman should be able to speak in public - by definition - Mbeki CANNOT. He can't even write his own speeches. He's recently been accused of being cold and distant.

As for a scholar. I don't know where this comes from. 'Learner' is closer to the mark.

 

[kilo39]

This showers thing was blown out of proportion. He's not my hero or anything, but I would argue for fair comment. He didn't say showers would cure AIDS. He said it would reduce the risk of infection. If you've just had unsafe sex, what would be the first thing you do?? Common sense.

Excuse me while I roll on the floor

 

[Angelo]

JZ is hardly a statesman ... he's a local hero at best and one who thinks showers will prevent AIDS, at that.

You are a fool if you still believe JZ had a shower "to prevent AIDS", a sucker for media garbage.

 

[Angelo]

The trouble with JZ is that we don't really know him.

I take by "we" you mean the white minority because he's certainly not unknown to the majority?

 

[werner]

You are a fool if you still believe JZ had a shower "to prevent AIDS", a sucker for media garbage.

unlike you, who spoke to him personally, and heard him comment
"eish, I smell like a mine worker after a double shift on friday, let me go showa"

 

[jontyB]

You are a fool if you still believe JZ had a shower "to prevent AIDS", a sucker for media garbage.

JZ is the fool for believing the shower would prevent HIV infection.

 

[IanC]

This showers thing was blown out of proportion. He's not my hero or anything, but I would argue for fair comment. He didn't say showers would cure AIDS. He said it would reduce the risk of infection. If you've just had unsafe sex, what would be the first thing you do?? Common sense.

Hmmm yes, I suppose it is fair comment, however for a man of his supposed stature to even mention AIDS and shower in the same sentence was rash in the extreme ...

The trouble with JZ is that we don't really know him.

No argument there.

What he considers and what the truth is are two separate things. A statesman should be able to speak in public - by definition - Mbeki CANNOT. He can't even write his own speeches. He's recently been accused of being cold and distant.

I would venture that very few heads of state write their own speeches ... as far as being cold and distant, I still see echoes of Jan Smuts mistakes .

As for a scholar. I don't know where this comes from. 'Learner' is closer to the mark.

Not quite sure what's required to be a scholar ... but he does have a Master of Economics degree from the University of Sussex .

 

[marketman]

xtermin8or old buddy, in the previous regime, South Africa had little internal problems in relation to the scale of chaos currently facing every South African. Before mbeki tries to 'fix it' everywhere else in the world, using apartheid as his guiding light, he must atend to (in person) the problems of his people at home...

 

[marketman]

I agee jontyB. JZ is counting on the fact that yet not enough knowledge of Aids is known by his supporters, so he pretends to be as uninformed as they are, by publicly stating he showered after the fact, thus making the time frame after having sex with an infected person, an important move in preventing the virus from settling. It insults his people when he thinks his ignorance takes away his responsibility to own up to his action and warn them rather than to come up with the shower nonsense.

 

[marketman]

The president doesn't want help Sipho. He has perfected being absent when the people who offer their help turns up for a meeting...ha...ha...

 

[xtermin8or]

xtermin8or old buddy, in the previous regime, South Africa had little internal problems in relation to the scale of chaos currently facing every South African. Before mbeki tries to 'fix it' everywhere else in the world, using apartheid as his guiding light, he must atend to (in person) the problems of his people at home...

this is probably the biggest load of bull**** I've heard in a long time, they faced "little internal problems" yeah, like an imminent civil war, unrest in the townships, international sanctions - don't talk out of your a$$ please - the country has problems now, yes, and there are definite steps by Government to tackle these problems

 

[xtermin8or]

A statesman should be able to speak in public - by definition - Mbeki CANNOT. He can't even write his own speeches. He's recently been accused of being cold and distant.

Mbeki is known for his skills of oration, and for many years he wrote speeches for O R Tambo, his speechwriters complain that he often changes their speeches and writes his own, in effect wasting their time

another clearly illustrated point, that some people in this country make statements without any real knowledge of the facts - it's a shame - you people should really first learn more before commenting

 

[jontyB]

this is probably the biggest load of bull**** I've heard in a long time, they faced "little internal problems" yeah, like an imminent civil war, unrest in the townships, international sanctions - don't talk out of your a$$ please - the country has problems now, yes, and there are definite steps by Government to tackle these problems

Pray tell how many people are dying in this country from violent crime, AIDS and car accidents every day? And compared to one of these always-on-the-brink-of-civil-war countries? This erratic and unabated support for a bad government is really stretching a little thin now.

 

[marketman]

So what you are trying to tell me is that all the committee's, sub-committee's, sub-sub committees and all the forums being established to inspect and evaluate all these committee's are actually doing what they intend to do? Over the last 12 years, we have all witnessed that the leaders in the new South Africa are always in the process of investigating issues, instead of getting off their a$$es, and actually doing something constructive. I don't agree with the old regime, but at least when something needed attention, someone was given the task to sort it out. Today, the new government hopes things will come right with time. As for you describing my comment as a load of bull****. Please u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d the following: Imminent civil war includes everyone in a country. Rather refer to those wars as being between different tribes. Don't confuse yourself with the definitions of types of war, and don't involve everyone in the country (at the time) in the township clashes.

 

[xtermin8or]

Pray tell how many people are dying in this country from violent crime, AIDS and car accidents every day? And compared to one of these always-on-the-brink-of-civil-war countries? This erratic and unabated support for a bad government is really stretching a little thin now.

car accidents - is that now really Government's fault or is it the bahaviour of people like you and I. The other things as I have pointed out, Government is doing something about - the crime stats speak for themselves, and the comprehensive plan to fight HIV and AIDS - unlike the previous govt ( as i was referring to them in the previous post ) only cared for a minority of the population - the fact that the priveledged few lived better in the past than they do now is not indicative of a country going backward - JontyB you enjoyed the priveledge of the past - it is sad but understandable that you are bitter that the current government does not spoonfeed you in every aspect of your life

 

[xtermin8or]

Please u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d the following: Imminent civil war includes everyone in a country. Rather refer to those wars as being between different tribes. Don't confuse yourself with the definitions of types of war, and don't involve everyone in the country (at the time) in the township clashes.

please go back - do some reading - learn a little - then comment - the country was on the brink of a massive uprising of people against the Government - MK and APLA camps were ready - it was on the verge of war -

 

[marketman]

You seem to have some form of selective reasoning xtermin8or. Are you actually going to try and convince us that radical improvement is evident based on the effort of mbeki. Being a good orator also makes you a good bull****er, if you cannot follow up on the promises you make during your speech. Talk is cheap...money buys the whiskey...

 

[jontyB]

car accidents - is that now really Government's fault or is it the bahaviour of people like you and I. The other things as I have pointed out, Government is doing something about - the crime stats speak for themselves, and the comprehensive plan to fight HIV and AIDS - unlike the previous govt ( as i was referring to them in the previous post ) only cared for a minority of the population - the fact that the priveledged few lived better in the past than they do now is not indicative of a country going backward - JontyB you enjoyed the priveledge of the past - it is sad but understandable that you are bitter that the current government does not spoonfeed you in every aspect of your life

OMG. Crime Stats do speak for themselves, and they tell a very bleak story. In fact, despite the slightest of reductions in petty crimes, violent crimes (such as cash in transit heists) are up. Yeah, a good pointer there xtermin8or. Sadly for you I did not enjoy privileges of the past. Spoonfeed? Jissis people like you make me sick. I dare you to leave the safe confines of your Pretoria security estate and come along with me on patrol on a weekend night into one of the townships. Then we'll talk. Till then, I don't think your opinion counts for anything. By the way, what have you done to better South Africa lately?

 

[marketman]

As you so accurately wrote, the government has BIG BIG plans.....just such a pity they stop at the planning phase. We never see results.

 

[marketman]

In which magazine did you read that sh**? I was alive and all grown up in the old South Africa, and I missed that big scoop xterm. Please publish clear proof of the crap you just stated or wash your mouth with soap at least.