Any news on new ADSL products?

sybawoods · Mar 8, 2004

TELKOM have long hinted at the possibility of broadening their ADSL product offering e.g. they have clearly mentioned the possibility of a "less shaped account", possibly with a higher premium. Does anyone have any inside info, or heard any good rumours about when (if ever) these products will be brought to market. I am running an ISDN line alongside my ADSL purely to "escape the shape" [

] - but it's becoming a costly exercise. The rumour front has been very quiet of late, other than the rumour about an uncapped account...

DarkSkies · Mar 9, 2004

Hi yah Sybawoods. I currently have the same problem, the shaping on the network is killing my international gaming. We have been hearing this rumour for almost a year now, and Telkom even stated that new products were on the horizon a couple of months ago. I would also like to know if anyone has heard any new news on the less shaped packages. Hopefully before next week Monday as my ADSL is being uninstalled then.

Sybawoods is right, its just too expensive to have to maintain an ISDN connection as well for gaming purposes. Telkom can't get it through their thick skulls that the Internet is more than just Web Browsing and E-Mail, especially over ADSL. Whats the use of broadband if you can't use it as such.

BTTB · Mar 9, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Telkom can't get it through their thick skulls that the Internet is more than just Web Browsing and E-Mail, especially over ADSL. Whats the use of broadband if you can't use it as such.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

IMO, Telkom are fully aware of what they are doing. They are giving us the least amount of product at the highest price. For how long this will continue one can only speculate.
Until Sentech and the SNO has absorbed their share of the market, roughly 40 to 60%, I dont think their will be any light on the horizon for us. Im afraid the ANC has other priorities than us meager broadband customers. Besides its a nice source of revenue for them. So why change.

IMO, the only hope we might have is the ICASA complaint at the moment.

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

onionpeel · Mar 10, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DarkSkies
Hopefully before next week Monday as my ADSL is being uninstalled then.
Sybawoods is right, its just too expensive to have to maintain an ISDN connection as well for gaming purposes.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You see folks, this is the crux, don't bitch and moan if you aren't prepared to put your money where your mouth is.
Well done to DarkSkies for giving Telkon the middle finger.[}

]
Remember, it is still your choice to get ADSL - Telkon never blackmailed you into taking the product. The fact that you are still using it tells me that although it is bad, it's not bad enough for you to turf it like DarkSkies has done. It's your decision - what did you do when there was no ADSL? Same story with mobile phones - what did you do 10 years ago when there were no mobile phones? Let's face it, you CAN turf ADSL because you managed without it before.

Sybawoods, you say it's becoming costly, then I am counting the days until you also show Telkon your middle finger...

Telkon are not worried about our complaints, they have shoved us off for more than a year. What will hurt them is when customers start disconnecting and competition (Sentech) strikes home...

kobie · Mar 10, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Remember, it is still your choice to get ADSL - Telkon never blackmailed you into taking the product. The fact that you are still using it tells me that although it is bad, it's not bad enough for you to turf it like DarkSkies has done. It's your decision - what did you do when there was no ADSL? Same story with mobile phones - what did you do 10 years ago when there were no mobile phones? Let's face it, you CAN turf ADSL because you managed without it before.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thats the biggest load of bullsh*t i've ever heard. It's like saying what did you do before running water?...oh yes you survived! drew your water from wells. But once running water was offered most wealthy people would have paid almost anything to keep it even if i was a poor overpriced product. With broadband being such a neccesity to many people Telkom is blackmailing us in a perverted sense by offering nothing better and not allowing any one else to offer anything better. Going back to anything less than dsl is not an option for some people anymore! its become a part of their lives!!

plug · Mar 10, 2004

I will be switching to Sentech soon. Hopefully there are many others like me and by the time Telkon wakes up they'll be begging customers to stay with ADSL and be giving it away almost free and all that. But Telkon not doing anything about the situation at present is good because I think they'll soon find out that a rotten deal is a rotten deal.

For example, light users will most definitely go for the 128kbs option of Sentech because it's half the price of ADSL. Power users will without a doubt go for the 512k package because there is no cap. Pitty about the 2 year contract but logically thinking I think Telkon will be having some trouble on their hands in the near future.

martin · Mar 10, 2004

Although I wouldn't compare ADSL to running water, I completely agree with the point kobie is trying to make. As an example: for a small business that cannot afford diginet, that got throttled by constant telephone costs, that does not fall under Sentech coverage, ADSL is the only logical solution for internet connectivity. It is unfortunately a flawed solution, and it is the consumers right to demand a good service (especially if no other company is allowed to provide the same service).

BTTB · Mar 10, 2004

Martin is correct. Its up to telkom to improve their service now. They need constant pressure from the public if we are going to be successful in our quest here.
But one one point though.
The internet is to telkom as water is to council and electricity is to eskom. All are essential services.

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

lewstherin · Mar 10, 2004

The only reason for Telkom to increase their product offering at present will be to attempt to entrap more customers - the bundled modem deal is a case in point.

I agree with the spirit of onionpeel's opinion about turfing ADSL, but he's definitely way off as far as the whole "not needing it" argument goes. I have out of principle not gotten any Telkom connection installed at home - I doing just fine using cells. Sentech's offering will be the data connection I buy, since it is *generally* superior by all accounts in the MyWireless section, and also it is importantly NOT Telkom.

The only language Telkom understands is money - service, fairness, public responsibility are all discardable bonuses.

If you guys want to see new products on the data front, kick Telkom where it hurts - right in the revenue stream. Think about it - Telkom has had to install ADSL infrastructure at exchanges to give ADSL users service. If the majority of an exchange suddenly bails ADSL for MyWireless, Telkom will take a hit in their Return On Investment. And when that adds up in negative balance sheet figures, they will be forced to fight back by making ADSL more attractive, otherwise their costly infrastructure will be sitting idle...

Vive la revolution [}

]

Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the SA consumer needs to make it happen

martin · Mar 10, 2004

It's not as easy as just cancelling our services. As a individual, maybe. As a business, no chance, we need a internet connection and land lines. We don't fall under Sentech's coverage and we can't operate on cell phones alone.

On a side note (and this is pure speculation): Who says Telkom still needs a ROI on their ADSL infrastructure? I'm sure there is a chance that they have already made enough money on ADSL subscriptions to cover that cost.

lewstherin · Mar 10, 2004

I agree its gonna be harder for businesses to cancel services, unfortunately they are also the sector that has the most financial clout [

]. However if we focused only on data services, then there are other (a few) alternatives to Telkom Business and ADSL for businesses - and if we hurt Telkom in that market, maybe they'll catch a wake up. Personally I'm in the process of convincing my company to change their Telkom data connection to a 512K MyWireless offering.

On the ROI (speculation is now in play) - surely if Telkom is in a position to milk their ADSL infrastructure, then they wont want the revenue to dry up, regardless of whether or not they have made their outlay cost back?

To reiterate, history has shown that Telkom is a law unto themselves - and only way we can reduce their power is to use alternatives whenever possible. Every cent that doesn't go to Telkom counts.

Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the SA consumer needs to make it happen

onionpeel · Mar 11, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kobie
Thats the biggest load of bullsh*t i've ever heard. It's like saying what did you do before running water?...oh yes you survived! drew your water from wells.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Nope, I always had running water, so the change for me is something I cannot relate to and so the move to it is not something I consdier. I used to catch the train to work for years. Now I use a car... but I can change back if the traffic bugs me enough because I know how I can adapt.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kobie
Telkom is blackmailing us in a perverted sense ...Going back to anything less than dsl is not an option for some people anymore! its become a part of their lives!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The ADSL product may be inflexible, but you can go back to ISDN if you are prepared to move out of your comfort zone. It's a case of getting used to the "high speed" internet of ADSL.

onionpeel · Mar 11, 2004

Let me summarise.
1. You were cautious about ADSL back in late 2002.
2. The first users reported that there were some issues which needed to be clarified:
a. port shaping
b. bad international pings
c. national traffic counts towards cap
d. "restricted" international service once capped
3. It was your choice to buy ADSL.
4. You made a good choice, a bad choice or you are so-so with it?
5. If you made a bad choice, then:
a. you live with your bad choice
b. you change it buy cancelling your subscription
6. Telkon is not going to help you with your ADSL problem(s).

sybawoods · Mar 12, 2004

Mmm. Perhaps my view on this is clouded because I tasted what ADSL *could* be like. I was amongst the first installations, when there was absolutely no shaping. The cap was there, but not enforced for the first few months. Even after the cap was enforced, shaping only arrived much later.

Let me summarise my experience, and perhaps you will understand the reason for my question about "new products".

a. I have ISDN since 1999
b. I get ADSL in late 2002, amongst the first installations. I keep my ISDN "just in case".
c. Biggest issue with ADSL is the CAP. Not an issue for me. International latency is brilliant! As good, but more stable than ISDN.
d. After two months, I disconnect my ISDN service - ADSL meets my needs: primarily browsing, email, light downloads, and gaming.
e. Four months later, in March 2003, port shaping is introduced. International latency becomes as bad as 56K dialup and international gaming becomes impossible.
f. I complain to Telkom. They assure me that a new product with "no shaping" is imminent. In the mean-while they reconnect my ISDN service for "gratis". I have to pay monthly rental though.
g. By June, still no "unshaped" ADSL product. I phone my contacts in Telkom - they assure me that product research is putting the final touches on this product.
h. By July I start reading public statements by Telkom that they will introduce a wider range of ADSL products. My hopes increase.
i. In August 2003, TELKOM releases a public statement, published on MyADSL (http://www.mybroadband.co.za/news/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=33) where they say:
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">SAIX is working on the introduction of a less shaped international pipe that will be offered to ISP's to meet the needs of customers who have high bandwidth applications.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
j. In December I am contacted, as part of a survey, about potential future ADSL products, including an unshaped one. I suspect a release is imminent.
k. In February 2004, DataPro launches an uncapped ADSL product, and hints very clearly that TELKOM may give them access to a less shaped product :
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Unfortunately for gamers, peer-to-peer users etc who are viewed as “abusers” by Telkom, any restrictions placed on the cloud will apply to them.
DataPro is in negotiations to terminate its own solution on Telkom’s infrastructure in future, which means that we will be able to directly cater for these users and their needs.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
j. By March 2004, still no sign of the unshaped product.

See the reasons for my anticipation though? While I can understand the view of those who say "cancel your ADSL connection", to me it feels like Nirvana is always *just* around the corner. Maybe I'm just gullible...

kaspaas · Mar 12, 2004

Reality is that Telkom has to launch these products under the cloud of the complaint at ICASA which they obviously are not eager to respond to.

Any product they launch, they will have to justify the rates as reasonable.

Why would they be entitled to charge (say) R50 pm for a fixed IP?
Or R100 pm for non-shaped bandwidth?

And that on top of their current platinum plated rates.

South Africa needs World Class Broadband at World Competitive Prices.

Any news on new ADSL products?

sybawoods

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DarkSkies

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BTTB

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onionpeel

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kobie

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plug

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BTTB

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