Any South African Indians who are former Pentecostal Christians here?

Shaun108

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How is Hinduism barbaric?

The left-hand tantra part of Hinduism allows for a lot of nice things. Hindu isn't what we are though - that was a term coined by the muslimes. They called all the people who lived opposite the Sindhu river "Hindus" because the muslims could not pronounce the "S" properly, instead pronouncing it as "H". The real term we prefer is Sanathan Dharma, the Old Religion or Eternal Religion.
 

Polymathic

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How is Hinduism barbaric?
A lot of Indian practises in rural areas get lumped into Hinduism by outsiders. One that comes to mind is Sati, where a widow is forced to burn alive on her husband funeral pyre.
 

Polymathic

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Well, since you like barbaric, you could widen your horizons by reading religious books that advocate slavery, foetus killing, genocide, slaughter & rapes, gay killing, daughter sacrifice, cannibalism ?

Unless, you got them covered in your book, that is.
I do believe the Bible condones incest if it's initiated by the daughter
 

Daruk

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I am a South African Indian and consider myself Agnostic. The reason why I have singled out South African Indian Pentecostal Churches is because I find them to be unique, firstly they are unique in that they seem to be readily willing to embrace western ideology and culture and reject anything that is non-western.

There is nothing particularly wrong with that and it is the individuals choice regarding what they want to do at the end of the day, but I get annoyed when they become judgmental towards other cultures and religions. I have also noticed that this group also tends to be the most judgmental among the South African Indian community towards other cultures. Hindu's for the most part are religious pluralists (i.e they believe all religions are true) while Muslims for the most part reject other religions and beliefs but do not bash, at least not openly and do not seek to convert. South African Indian Christians also in my experience tend to become very passionate when religion is discussed which is why I tended to avoid discussing my beliefs with them (even with the ones who I considered friends). That is why i want to know, are there any who left the religion and did their families take it well? I also want to know why exactly it is that they tend to target mainly Hindu's for conversion while avoiding other groups?

The South African Indian Pentecostal Churches also particularly target Hindu's for conversion and have been largely successful. If I am not mistaken, their percentage of the Indian community in SA was around 4% when Indians arrived here during the 1860's but is now around 25% and keeps increasing due to high rates of conversion. The reason for their success is not due to their community work as their Pastors may claim but more due to their critique of Hindu and other cultures. The Churches from my experience tend to be strongly influenced by American Pentecostal churches and I have even heard many South African Indian Christian apologists parrot many of the things which are said by American pentecostal apologists such as Ray Comfort, Ravi Zacharias etc.

Common ones include, though there are many more.

'' I did not come from a monkey''- when speaking about evolution.

'' The evidence of god is all around you''- a reference to intelligent design

'' Religion is man trying to find god, Christianity is god trying to find man''.

It is also noteworthy to mention that other Christian Churches (Catholic, Anglican etc) have not had much success in terms of converting. It is mainly the Pentecostal one which has.
The irony of blanket judgement of a group, calling them judgemental :laugh:
 

Zyk1

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My family is strong full gospel / Pentecostal. I was brought up this way....force fed....but never really accepted it.
Now decades later I am agnostic. Let me kids learn about different religions. They can make up their own minds when they are older.
I agree, Pentecostals really do shun every other religion. Not open to anything else besides their own way and strict following of the Bible.....(a book that was written thousands of years ago, authored by anyone's guess, and probably lost in translation)
 

newjourno

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The left-hand tantra part of Hinduism allows for a lot of nice things. Hindu isn't what we are though - that was a term coined by the muslimes. They called all the people who lived opposite the Sindhu river "Hindus" because the muslims could not pronounce the "S" properly, instead pronouncing it as "H". The real term we prefer is Sanathan Dharma, the Old Religion or Eternal Religion.

Yes, there are radical Hindu's who do some pretty weird and barbaric things but they are largely within India. Most Hindu's outside India are fairly tolerant and that's also why they don't have as bad a rep.
 

newjourno

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My family is strong full gospel / Pentecostal. I was brought up this way....force fed....but never really accepted it.
Now decades later I am agnostic. Let me kids learn about different religions. They can make up their own minds when they are older.
I agree, Pentecostals really do shun every other religion. Not open to anything else besides their own way and strict following of the Bible.....(a book that was written thousands of years ago, authored by anyone's guess, and probably lost in translation)

I've done some research on Indian Pentecostals in SA. It does not even seem like authentic Christianity but rather an American offshoot. Most of the music that they sing and dance to is also by American artists and they tend to consume a lot of American right-wing content which influences their very condescending views towards Indian and African culture.

Most of them would get bored if they were following an authentic form hence why the older Churches have been poor in terms of converting them.
 

newjourno

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A lot of Indian practises in rural areas get lumped into Hinduism by outsiders. One that comes to mind is Sati, where a widow is forced to burn alive on her husband funeral pyre.

I know of this practice but AFAIK, its no longer practiced in a similar way to how early Christians used to stone their daughters to death if they were not virgins on their wedding night.
 

newjourno

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What in your head is that?

The ones would religious leaders that understand Hebrew and other languages through which the Bible was written. A lot of messages get distorted and lost with translation so scholars and Pastors who only understand English will not really know the Bible 100%.
 

pinball wizard

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The ones would religious leaders that understand Hebrew and other languages through which the Bible was written. A lot of messages get distorted and lost with translation so scholars and Pastors who only understand English will not really know the Bible 100%.
So.... none in SA? Certainly none that I've heard of. Maybe those weird jews that believe in Judaism and Christ?
 

newjourno

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So.... none in SA? Certainly none that I've heard of. Maybe those weird jews that believe in Judaism and Christ?

There are minority groupings but largely insignificant. Religion is quite complex and there are groupings operating undercover.

I have family who attend a Church where they only pray in Latin. These people consider themselves Catholic but reject the Pope.
 

pinball wizard

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There are minority groupings but largely insignificant. Religion is quite complex and there are groupings operating undercover.

I have family who attend a Church where they only pray in Latin. These people consider themselves Catholic but reject the Pope.
Operating undercover seems antithesis to what the bible teaches in that Christians are meant to be a beacon of light to the world.

What does Latin have to do with it? BTW, I don't think Catholics are Christians anyway.
 

newjourno

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Operating undercover seems antithesis to what the bible teaches in that Christians are meant to be a beacon of light to the world.

What does Latin have to do with it? BTW, I don't think Catholics are Christians anyway.
I used the word in the wrong context, I meant under the radar. They are there but don't actively seek to convert people in a similar way to JW's and Pentecostal Churches.
 

Polymathic

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I know of this practice but AFAIK, its no longer practiced in a similar way to how early Christians used to stone their daughters to death if they were not virgins on their wedding night.
Time to time there's an incident or two that pop up from small isolated villages of the widows in-laws trying pressure her to do it. In most cases they want to get the dead husband's land because by law the land will go his widow.
 

Polymathic

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Yes, there are radical Hindu's who do some pretty weird and barbaric things but they are largely within India. Most Hindu's outside India are fairly tolerant and that's also why they don't have as bad a rep.
It's basically the same far right nationalism that is happening in the west. I used to get their propoganda videos from time to time.
 

Cius

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Had a lot of run in's with aggressive Pentecostal pastors in Chatsworth when I was there doing some missionary work in my younger days. They seemed to really dislike us in particular as we had a fair amount of success converting their people when they found out that unlike their pastors we were a lay ministry (unpaid). They spread a lot of lies and random stuff about us to try stop people even engaging with us in any way or form.

I try not judge but it was a lot harder with some of those guys. Pastors asking for 40% tithing, 10% of the church, 10% for the new building fund, 10% of the poor, etc. They generally rode around in merc's or something similar and would pick up their prostitutes in neighboring communities to try hide it from the flock. Not all where that bad but many where.

The worst was when one of those big faith healer type con-men came out from the states. All those Pentecostal's advertised the coming and they rented out a huge stadium. When he arrived with his huge entourage he took out a whole floor on a very fancy hotel in Umhlanga. I was good friends with someone who knew the manager of that hotel and apparently they refused to do the usual security checks. When management pushed saying they had to they allowed only the manager in and said he could not talk about anything he saw. What he found was that a lot of this guys hangers on and bodyguards where paid actors with wheelchairs, wigs, fake prosthetics, the works. The healing was all a big sham. The sad part was at the event people would take off their wedding rings to give to that charlatan.
 

TysonRoux

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Had a lot of run in's with aggressive Pentecostal pastors in Chatsworth when I was there doing some missionary work in my younger days. They seemed to really dislike us in particular as we had a fair amount of success converting their people when they found out that unlike their pastors we were a lay ministry (unpaid). They spread a lot of lies and random stuff about us to try stop people even engaging with us in any way or form.

I try not judge but it was a lot harder with some of those guys. Pastors asking for 40% tithing, 10% of the church, 10% for the new building fund, 10% of the poor, etc. They generally rode around in merc's or something similar and would pick up their prostitutes in neighboring communities to try hide it from the flock. Not all where that bad but many where.

The worst was when one of those big faith healer type con-men came out from the states. All those Pentecostal's advertised the coming and they rented out a huge stadium. When he arrived with his huge entourage he took out a whole floor on a very fancy hotel in Umhlanga. I was good friends with someone who knew the manager of that hotel and apparently they refused to do the usual security checks. When management pushed saying they had to they allowed only the manager in and said he could not talk about anything he saw. What he found was that a lot of this guys hangers on and bodyguards where paid actors with wheelchairs, wigs, fake prosthetics, the works. The healing was all a big sham. The sad part was at the event people would take off their wedding rings to give to that charlatan.
WTF did they see the need to import the yanky charlatan, we have enough of them here.

 

Shaun108

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Forced child marriage, animal sacrifice, the practice of immolation of widows.
You say those things like they are bad. Girls benefit financially from older husbands, animal sacrifice is no different than what's going on in a butcher/slaughterhouse and immolation of widows is seen as population reduction.
 
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