Anyone read this yet?

MaD · Feb 12, 2004

http://www.suntimes.co.za/2003/12/07/business/companies/comp01.asp

Good article (07 Dec, Sunday Times) with some nice facts... last paragraph:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">He suggests that US company SBC, Telkom's strategic equity partner, which has management control, would want to make the company as profitable as possible before selling off its shares. "None of this helps South African economic development"<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Another tale of America screwing a 3rd world country squarely up the ass. Thanks guys, really.

Sorry, there was a related article as well, some kind of reply from Telkom...
http://www.sundaytimes.co.za/2003/12/07/business/companies/comp02.asp

pretty hilarious stuff, another good read... Last paragraph:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Telkom is proud of its achievements and its contribution to the economy.

Telkom further prides itself on the fact that it is an ethical company that will continue to strive to improve services and support the development of an information society, locally and across the continent.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Classic stuff.. Drew Carey ain't got nothing on the marketing monkeys at Telkom [

] [}

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_________________________________________________
Just imagine where SA would be now if it weren't for Telkom

BTTB · Feb 12, 2004

He didnt mention Telekom Malaysia. Perhaps they have planted similar seeds. I always thought this overseas buyout of portions of telkom was unjustified. A public owned parastatel, bought and paid for by the masses, selling its rights to foreigners. I doubt SBC is concerned about a ADSL customer in SA. Considering I sent a mail to the Chairman of their Board and I still am awaiting a reply.
I think if AT+T had bought out Telkom in the early nineties at the infancy of the internet revolution, we would have seen a different picture now. But however the state turned down their offer thinking that bigger fish were around the corner. Now I wonder if anyone wants to buy 51% of Telkom with this bunch in control. To be told later what to do at every corner.
I think we are stuck with telkom for some time yet. The boardroom of telkom hasnt finished with the SA consumers yet. They are still milking the cash cow while they can.

Only the state has the power to change this picture. And how willing are they I ask you. I think they are actually in a bit of a dilemma. And not sure what course to take.

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

microfast · Feb 12, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by BTTB
.... A public owned parastatel, bought and paid for by the masses, selling its rights to foreigners. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is precisely the point ... and .......

There is only a buyer when there is a willing seller ...

Go figure it ..... who were the guys who travelled a lot to Malaysia some years ago ?? .....

Who are the guys with big bucks in their retirement pockets right here ????

Strobemeister · Feb 12, 2004

I think this was covered here when it came out. Still, i had another good laugh at Kekana's reply.
How do you like this paragraph to justify the tariff increases:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The argument relating to the increases in residential connection charges from 1997 to 2002 conveys obliviousness of the tariff rebalancing that was required between international and local calls to eliminate cross-subsidisation, or is designed to gain "populist" acceptance at the expense of business realities and a competitive environment.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
er, ok, if you say so Mr Kekana.

mm, its a bit sad reading Melody's assessment, we really are getting shafted here.[V]

Telkom - South Africa's Handbrake to progress.

BTTB · Feb 12, 2004

Probably Mr Kekana beleives these statements he makes. He is however an employee of Telkom and standing up for them. I feel sorry for him having the job of answering the Professors obvious learned statements. He must of sat for several days plotting out what he had to say. His job was on the line if that is at all possible in Telkom these days seeing they are doing so well. Looking at his picture he looks like a nice chap.
I wonder if telkom were truely concerned about their clients if a man like Mr Kekana could make some comments on these forums or supply the founders with a reply to many questions we have. As the normal channels of complaints are fruitless.
Telkom has however the duty to provide an acceptable service to its users which should be of world class standards. And I dont mean the dialling tone.

Interesting PDF document to read by Professor Melody. Can the Internet economy be governed and if so, how?
http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/LSEPublicLecturesAndEvents/events/2003/20030404t1449z001.htm

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

gnu_genx · Feb 13, 2004

I have but one thing to say regarding my feelings towards Telkom...as irrelevant as they are(my feelings) to this forum..i think Telkom can be found guilty of alot more than just crappy service consisting mostly of smoke and screens..which is about the only service they EXCEL at..

As a youngster I recall Telkom being responsible for the many fights my family had after my father, and many of his colleages, were made redundant for no apparant reason whatsoever...presumably as part of the same "drive to push out unnecessary expenditure" (as quoted by Mr Kekana)

Now almost 10 years later...my little ISP is faced with bankrupcy due to the reduced profit margins brought about by Telkom's aDSL service which captured 45% of my analog Leased line customer base in under 2 months.

It brings me almost to tears reading the article from the good Professor. What he says is so true, we all know it..we've known it for along time. The fact remains that Telkom have done,and are doing more harm than good, especially to those who've been loyal customers over the years(not like we/they had a choice mind you)...let's not even get started on the loyal workers who gave 25 years of service and have nothing more to show for it today other than a pair of standard issue brown Telkom Field Technicians boots which now lay unused in the cupboard..along with the skills and brainpower that helped Telkom become the **FATMAN's** pension fund it's become today.

TELKOM - Disconnecting People

** If Life throws you a lemon....Pour yourself a Tequila !! **

BTTB · Feb 13, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gnu_genx
 I have but one thing to say regarding my feelings towards Telkom...as irrelevant as they are(my feelings) to this forum..i think Telkom can be found guilty of alot more than just crappy service consisting mostly of smoke and screens..which is about the only service they EXCEL at..

As a youngster I recall Telkom being responsible for the many fights my family had after my father, and many of his colleages, were made redundant for no apparant reason whatsoever...presumably as part of the same "drive to push out unnecessary expenditure" (as quoted by Mr Kekana)

Now almost 10 years later...my little ISP is faced with bankrupcy due to the reduced profit margins brought about by Telkom's aDSL service which captured 45% of my analog Leased line customer base in under 2 months.

It brings me almost to tears reading the article from the good Professor. What he says is so true, we all know it..we've known it for along time. The fact remains that Telkom have done,and are doing more harm than good, especially to those who've been loyal customers over the years(not like we/they had a choice mind you)...let's not even get started on the loyal workers who gave 25 years of service and have nothing more to show for it today other than a pair of standard issue brown Telkom Field Technicians boots which now lay unused in the cupboard..along with the skills and brainpower that helped Telkom become the **FATMAN's** pension fund it's become today.

TELKOM - Disconnecting People

** If Life throws you a lemon....Pour yourself a Tequila !! **
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hello Gnu. Welcome to MyADSL. Although none of my family are involved with Telkom. And we were never affected by the thousands that lost their jobs. I brought up this point under the thread "Getting Telkom struck off ProudlySA list" , under fair labour practice. And I quote myself as saying,
"3. Labour Practices. Well this isnt my forte to speak, but I will say this. The many thousands of people that Telkom made redundant cannot be too happy."

It is sad to hear your families dilemma in this matter. But yes telkom was guilty of bad labour practice. They will however somewhere along the line pay for these indiscretions. I just cannot predict when. I bet Prof. Melody has got a good idea, but I doubt he will mention this in public.

Providing a good internet service has become to Telkom, what Eskom is to Electricity and Council is to water. They are a necessity that needs to be delivered ASAP. But because of government/telkom's reluctance to change, they have basically slowed down the service delivery to the general public by a decade or more.

I put a question to my young Nephew(age 19) yesterday if he would ask his mom for ADSL if the price was between R250 and R300 per month and he answered yes. He reckoned his mom would be able to afford it, but otherwise he will have to settle for their 56k connection until such time it is affordable. He is at a stage where he will also go into the job market soon and the internet could of been a step in some direction, but now we will never know.
But their telephone account was very high the last 2 months as they are new to the internet and get disconnected often and have to spend many hours waiting for data to trickle in. My point in saying this is. Telkom are not worried about you been saddled with 56K or ISDN as they will receive similar amounts of money into their coffers in any event. Dial up internet is expensive to say the least and only cost effective in call more time. But Im sure you figured that out already.

Another 2c.

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

MaD · Feb 13, 2004

See, BTTB, this is the kind of thing that causes radicals to emerge. My blood boils when I think about how unaffordable most of Telkom's services are. Their pricing is for large companies or corporates who don't give a stuff what it costs. That pricing applies to most of their services. If I had a magic wand I would divide all their prices by 4, and offer free internet to educational institutions by the megabit, and so would the rest of us. But because our government, and particularly the dept. of comms., is run by a group of vision-less baboons, this won't happen until we do something about it. Telkom denying the average person access to information at an affordable price is criminal. That's the kind of thing, which I have mentioned before, that makes one want to get a nice nylon rope, wrap it around a Telkom blue & green sub box and rip the 4ucka out the ground. I know that's wrong, but that's how I feel, and I know I'll do it one day. I'll start here, and end up in JHB. A 928 can tow those things out in reverse.

They are milking the people who can afford services to make up for those who can't afford the services. But that happens because those who can't afford their services can't afford it because, well, they're too damn expensive. Always have been.

If Telkom treated this country well we wouldn't even need a SNO. Food for thought.

_________________________________________________
Just imagine where SA would be now if it weren't for Telkom

BTTB · Feb 14, 2004

The state should of setup goals for telkom before they started to unbundle. The only thing the state told them to do was bring phone lines to the poor. Hence the 2.5Mil people that Prof Melody was talking about. Telkom concentrated on providing this service at a hefty price to the rest of SA. Perhaps the 48Billion telkom talks about was used for this and other projects. Also dropping the price of a Tickey Box call to 50c was aimed at this market.
Needless to say these people couldnt afford it in the first place and were cut off. Prof Melody reckons they should of left their phones with a "Always On" scenario, at least to be able to receive calls. But one wonders who took the decisions to cut off people, I cannot say. Probably boardroom talk amongst the shareholders like SBC and Telekom Malaysia who want to see shareprices rocket, like they did the last year. Over R70 a share now. I wonder when SBC is going to dump their shares as Prof Melody points out. Man I would like this mans email address. He could help people like us as he sees through the bull****.

Telkom SA is a unique example of a unbundling balls-up. Everyone wants a piece of the cake, but the government wants to decide who gets how big a slice. Hence the fighting. Amongst all of this mess, they "forgot" about the consumer. The SA Consumer who I like to refer as the "Big Cash Cow". The ANC has only one vision and that is to provide as much as they can to the poor and they dont care on how many toes they tramp on in the process. This is where their votes come from. They know it too well. Im all for giving people services dont get me wrong, but to hold back the rest of the country in the process is downright malicious and unconstitutional.

Im going to try and get hold of the Professor, what you think?

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

MaD · Feb 14, 2004

Yeh go for it boet.. he certainly knows what he's talking about, if only TK execs listened to him eh, they'd be fools not to..

From what I have read in the numerous mails I have sent and received from industry players, things are going to change very, very soon, and DSL is going to be a casualty wrt pricing so we can expect affordable connectivity to happen in the next couple of months.

_________________________________________________
Just imagine where SA would be now if it weren't for Telkom

Strobemeister · Feb 14, 2004

Care to elaborate Mad?[

]

Telkom - South Africa's Handbrake to progress.

BTTB · Feb 15, 2004

Email Sent to Prof Melody.

Hello Professor Melody,

I am one member of MyADSL in South Africa. We represent mostly disgruntled ADSL users. We have now over 1000 members and growing everyday. We have read your excellent articles on Telecommunications and were most relieved when we saw your articles with reference to Telkom in South Africa.

As I know your time is valuable and I dont wish to waste your time. Is it possible you can give us guidance with tackling our quest against Telkom SA's ADSL's service as we feel we are been ripped off to say the least.
Im sure the founders of MyADSL who know more than myself whats going on could be helped by any input you might be able to give us.

If you have any comments could you please visit the forums of www.myadsl.co.za or email one of the founders or myself and I can forward it to him. His email address is, rpm@myadsl.co.za

We would appreciate any help we can get as we are against a brick wall with Telkom SA.

Best Regards,
.........
.........

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

Jerrek · Feb 16, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MaD
 Another tale of America screwing a 3rd world country squarely up the ass. Thanks guys, really.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I do object to that. Take some f*cking personal responsibility. The goal of a corporation is profit, by definition. It is not SBC's fault that there is no competition in South Africa. I bet that other carriers would love to operate in South Africa and take a chunk out of Telkom's profit, had they been allowed to do so.

The clock is ticking................... 1,174 kb/s - I brake for no one
http://home.cogeco.ca/~johannj/net_stuff/cogeco.jpg

BTTB · Feb 16, 2004

I see Jereks point and I see Mad's point. Both are relative.

As far as Jerek is concerned, he is right, the government is to blame for the Monopolistic Situation. It isnt SBC's fault. Where their is buyer their is always a willing seller.

And as far as Mad is concerned, I too wonder what the USA is up to, as sometimes I feel their sole motivation in life is money. One only needs to look at the oil industry. On the topic of SBC however, I did receive acknowledgement from them to my letter making them aware of MyADSL and lets see if they respond.

But guys lets keep away from swearing at members of MyADSL or anyone else for that matter. It is counterproductive. Members have nowhere else to vent their anger as Telkom is apparently not listening.

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

coenb · Feb 17, 2004

I have to tell you, reading all this is fascinating. But you are all forgetting, we are living in a socialist country. The government rules. Telkom belongs to the government, true 30% belongs to the SBC/Malaysian consortium, but they don't make the rules.

Do you for one moment believe that the SNO will make any difference? Do you really think the government will allow anyone to undercut their own company? Price control is the thought that comes to mind.

And whilst everyone is very unhappy about the ADSL service, I think we can agree it is a lot better than dialing in with our 56k modems. Chaps, we are living in a developing country. 3rd world. Actually, with all the corruption around I think we should now start to realise that we are a true African nation. So let's compare ourselves to the other African states, if we want to compare to services of other countries. Then we might realise that having just a phoneline is already a blessing.

Strobemeister · Feb 17, 2004

I hate this "developing country" thing we always get labelled with. When are we going to finish developing? I feel developed right now. I'm finished developing. I'm complete. How come Australia isn't labelled as a developing country? Their lifestyle's pretty similar to ours. 3rd World? What's that? Is the UK a 1st world? How come i have a better lifestyle here on my crap salary than i had on my good salary in the perfect 1st world? I'm happy in my fully developed 3rd world country. Trouble is, i can't get online to tell everyone about it.[

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Telkom - South Africa's Handbrake to progress.

Tharaxis · Feb 18, 2004

One thing to increase through all their "workforce restructuring" (read laying-off) is their profits.

They have in no way, shape, or form used that additional revenue to improve service and lower rates, in fact, they've done the exact opposite, instead introducing new, sub-functional services at exorbitant prices.

BTTB · Feb 18, 2004

And brought services to the poor which was part of their licence agreement.
But as Prof Melody states, then they cut off 2mil of the 2.5mil beacuse of fraud or unaffordibility. This could of formed part of the 48Bil that Telkom brags about spending on the SA Consumer. So did they really bring services to the poor. They should of thought of making Tickey Boxes cheaper in the first place (80c to 50c). Would of saved a lot of money.

I look over the road at the Telkom Exchange and wonder what big expenses are needed to run this building. I see now and then one or two bakkies parked outside during the day and I cannot say when last the building had a coat of paint. In actaul fact the building is very ugly to say the least.

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

SK33T · Feb 18, 2004

Well it looks like that every country that has a black goverment is a developing country.(as said earlier Australia has a history the same length of time as ours and they are also in the middle of nowhere)
I agree that this country is not a developing country but rather a developed country.
By the way what the hell does developing have to do with over inflated prices and for withholding technology which is readily available,but is in the hands of a monopoly.

mithrandi · Feb 19, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I do object to that. Take some f*cking personal responsibility. The goal of a corporation is profit, by definition.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Glad I'm not the only one that understands this [

]

<hr noshade size="1">mithrandi, i Ainil en-Balandor, a faer Ambar

Anyone read this yet?

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