Appalled at Vodacom for being billed for services I have no knowlegde of

[metoman]

Good Morning

My name is METOMAN I am an account holder of Vodacom service provider Pty Ltd. The line I am querying is 082*******. I have notice this month and also last month that I am being billed for something called content services,which I have no knowledge off. When I call customer care on Thursday morning (17/08/06) to ask what this is about they told me that It is a competition of some sort I subscribe to.I told the consultant I need more info regarding this service or competition. The consultant told me she will get someone to phone me within 24 hours to give me some feed back. Well that never happened.

When I phoned Friday morning to ask what happened to my query the consultant told me that, the department who was dealing with the query did sms their finding to me. I told the consultant that I can't received sms's because I had it barred some time ago. Why did they not phone me as they promised I ask well, she did not have the answer. The customer care consultant told me further on that the findings are that I have register for some service with a company called Miro networks and I need to call them to unsubscribe.

I told the consultant I never subscribe to any competition or advertise services and that I refuse to contact this Company to query the billing of the content services.I told the the consultant further that I want proof when did I sign up for this service and how did I benefit out of it.

This morning a guy with name of Jason phone me from WASP (Whatever that mean) he told me that he will be able to produce the proof I am looking for. He went into my billing history and notice that I am being billed for this service since February this year. When I ask him where is the sms or the contract where I accepted the terms and conditions to sign up and being billed for these amounts being take off my account he could not produce it. He told me this service is being activated from a website called www.sms.ac. I asked him whether anyone can go to this website and register your cell number and vodacom are prepare to bill you without you have any knowledge of it. He couldn't answer me. He insist that I need to contact Miro Networks to sort out the problem.

I explain to him and like all the other customer care consultants I spoke before on my invoices and statements I received every month I don't see Miro Networks name anywhere I see Vodacom Service Provider Company (Pty) Ltd, so why must I contact them. I have been paying for something I presume since February this year which I have not sign up for. I then ask him that he need to get his supervisor to phone me tomorrow morning.

My argument is as follow I am not prepare to pay for something I did not sign up for. If I can't get hard proof that I sign up for this service and that I have benefited out of it I want all my charges reversed and being compensated for my time and effort I had to go through to get your people to understand that it is illegal what you are doing. I am truly appolled with the behaviour, attitude and responses I got from customer care people. Everybody immediately assumed that I am at fault and I need to go rectify this problem with Miro Networks. I don't know who these people are what they do and how I am connected to them.

This is what I know. I have sign up a 24 month contract with Vodacom Service Provider Company (Pty) Ltd which I am bound to pay for any calls, sms's and data connectivity I make during that time. I am sure I did not sign up for this service I am being billed for. Please sort this out ASAP.

 

[dotcat]

Go into a vodashop and cause some molekied.

 

[vodacom3g]

Not saying it is the case here but always make 100% sure you don't subscribe to a service you don't want or don't want to continue with after the initial interaction.

Wireless Application Service Providers (WASP's) offer various services to which you can subscribe and then do the billing via your VSP account, a bit like your bank does with debit orders, i.e. you form a relation with a company but the billing is doe via your bank or service provider.

It's this 'relationship' that's the actual question. The WASP in question here must be able to show where you 'opted-in', i.e. to what service you subscribed.

IN general be very wary of any offers out there that seems to good to be true, they normally are....

Many providers of a service (not just mobile) will offer free services, but these tend to automatically moved to a charge-base model at some point and by using the 'free' service, you accepted the billing model. Looks like sms.ac is one of these.

Looking at sms.ac I noticed this on their home page:

"The price per message sent and received is ZAR2. NOTE: Verified users may send 5 free SMS Messages per day (30 days after verifying your mobile phone). "

Seems to indicate that after 30 days the 5 free SMS's fall away. (And you start paying?)

Also:

"When you receive premium messages, a per message fee will be automatically charged to your mobile phone account by your mobile phone company."

So by receiving messages from this site, you pay, or so it seems.

Best bet is to make contact with the WASP and ask for proof of your registration.

 

[Edinetz]

Best bet is to make contact with the WASP and ask for proof of your registration.

I disagree, VodacomSP must provide the proof that the company was authorised to charge your account if you are querying the validity of the charge. If you never subscribed to the service there is no contract between you and the WASP. The only contract is between you and your service provider and hence your service provider must provide proof that the charge was authorised just like when you query your credit card which has been incorrectly billed, the original voucher must be produced.

During July, a 2Gig bundle was attached to my primary account and both my SIMMS where billed for Email. When asked for proof all Vodacom was say there is no note made of any activation - it would have been noted who activated it if customer care activated it. Maybe it was done on the Vodacom4me website?

It worries me that there is no evidence of subscriber authorisation for service activated and deactivated. The call center even suggested that possible the bundle got activated on the wrong account due to a typing error. This means Vodacom has no mean of enforcing any value added subscriptions made which were not included on the original contract.

Better still I have queried the charge but on following up on Thursday the person the query has been assigned to is not contactable. Telkom responded to my last account query in 24 hours and phoned me unlike the Vodacom customer care sms you receive which only states that they are looking into the fault which remains pending for months until they phone you to follow up 2 months after you have cancelled the service.

I have given up on Vodacom 3G and moved to ADSL. Now I am moving my remaining service from Vodacom.

 

[metoman]

re: Appolled at Vodacom for being billed for services I have no knowlegde of

Guys All I want is the proof that I sign up for the service but they can't produce it.

 

[vodacom3g]

Guys All I want is the proof that I sign up for the service but they can't produce it.

Metoman, please PM the cell number.

 

[yebocan]

the same deal

'SMS now on 32001,to download the latest episode of Days of our Dreams’, that is the usual ploy or download the latest ringtones,but what you fail to realize is that by sending a sms from your phone to that number, you are accepting the terms and conditions of the service that is being offered to you. Guess what one of those terms are: you will be automatically registered/subscribed to receive updates or content...at the normal rate, by sending an sms to the service

My gripe is both with the WASPs and with the network operarator.The WASP for putting such a obvious "deal breaker" in the minute print...and that nogal on TV. And then there are the operators, aware of the unethical business practices of these WASPs, still allowing them the ability to bill your cell account directly. But then again, we just have to look at who run these WASPs, ex employees of the cell networks… I smell a you scratch my back, I scratch your back thang going on.

Best advice, sail clear of any sms service…

 

[krycor]

I think those cell services being advertised need some regulation, cause they have alot of fine print incl what you mention above where it auto subscribes you and charges per week etc. *cracks his whip*

 

[adsl3g]

I think those cell services being advertised need some regulation, cause they have alot of fine print incl what you mention above where it auto subscribes you and charges per week etc. *cracks his whip*

..and you can't read the fine print on the TV screen as its too small or it is flashed for second on the screen. Sometimes I do not even have enough time to find out what the SMS costs.. I just shake my head at this crap on TV.

 

[vodacom3g]

calling metoman, can't get hold of you.

metoman, here's what we've seen so far:

- Your handset was used (by you or someone else) to subscribe you to this service.

- You then received at least 2 SMS's per day from this service provider for a while. The WASP charged you R2.50 per SMS.

- SMS's were then disabled on the handset, we assume to try and stop them from coming through. They're obviously still being sent and you're still being charged.

- We've asked the local office of the WASP to unsubscribe you. They're requesting you follow their standard unsubscribe process. We've also asked for proof that the number subscribed itself. According to the WASP, this is the only way to get an account, from the number in question.

- The WASP is adamant that the number in question have received a number of SMS's detailing the service, T & C's, and how to use it. We're busy checking this. We can see a number of SMS from the WASP to the handset.

We tried calling and SMS's both the numbers you gave me today, but cannot get through to you. Even the Executive in charge of this process tried to call you 4 times today. Just spoke with her 2 minutes ago.

I would strongly suggest you turn SMS's back on, on the handset and unsubscribe from the service.

So it looks like your phone was used to subscribe to the service and when you did not want the SMS's anymore your deactivated it on the phone instead of with the WASP?

Won't you let me know (you can PM me) when your numbers will be available again to call?

 

[pip]

These blasted "subscription" services need to be regulated, or the networks need to take cancellations themselves. I have seen some of these ringtone and whatever ads on the TV - there are some terms and conditions in completely unreadable small print that whip past before you can even try and focus on them.

Many of us give our kids cell phones, and have to take responsibility for whatever they contract with them. But the kids don't understand this "subscription" cr@p even if they can read the fine print, and are clueless how to "unsubscribe". These services are misleading ripoffs mostly - shovelling out worthless cr@p at high prices. If I thought Govt or ICASA would do anything about it I would write to them.

If the networks were in any way service oriented they would do something to protect their users rather than slobber gleefully at the $$ they presumably get as their cut.

 

[broken1]

Many of us give our kids cell phones, and have to take responsibility for whatever they contract with them. But the kids don't understand this "subscription" cr@p even if they can read the fine print, and are clueless how to "unsubscribe". These services are misleading ripoffs mostly - shovelling out worthless cr@p at high prices. If I thought Govt or ICASA would do anything about it I would write to them.

If the networks were in any way service oriented they would do something to protect their users rather than slobber gleefully at the $$ they presumably get as their cut.

According to the law, if your kid (minor) enters into a contract without your knowledge or concent, you can actually have the contract reversed. The courts always favour the minor in such occasion. It would be a simple in out at the small claims court. You return your unjustified enrichment, which might entail deleting the ringtones etc and you get your money back. I have done this process once or twice when I was "taken" by various dubious businesses and was still a minor.

 

[Debbie]

metoman, I strongly advise that you read this thread: http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=20685&highlight=sms.ac

This issue of sms.ac was covered on MyADSL 15 months ago.

At the time I was under the impression that Vodacom had at least responded to my complaint, but clearly that was not the case. In fact, NOT ONE of the three cellular providers EVER contacted me back about it. I did, however, receive a phonecall from sms.ac from the USA.

Anyway, read that thread, it will help. I have posted contact details of sms.ac there, though I am not sure if they are still valid. (The thread may seem disjointed, as that night the MyADSL moved servers, and a number of posts were lost all over the forum.)

Vodacom3G, is it not time Vodacom became proactive in these matters? Why can't Vodacom simply introduce a verification scheme, where the user has to sms back that they agree to these terms and conditions and charges on an ongoing basis? It is not right that this sort of thing continues with the cell companies knowing full well that thousands of people fall for such scams.

Vodacom, MTN and Cell C need to do something not because it is their responsibility, not because it is their legal obligation (it is neither), but rather because they care about their customers and geniunely don't want to participate in known scams.

This sort of thing really angers me.

 

[metoman]

Vodacom3g I have gave you my contact number in the last PM I sent to you.I did recieved 2 phone calls from vodacom cust. care yesterday first from a lady and then later in the day from a gent by the name of Jihad. Both reponses was that they are still investigating the matter and they will come back to me with the proof today. I asked Jihad why it was taking so long to get to the bottom of this he told me they are waiting for Miro Networks to pruduce the proof for them. Apparently their server is ofline since Thursday last week.

 

[KaasP]

That's what WASPA is for

If you ever feel you've been short-changed by a WASP, you can lodge a complaint via the WASPA website.
Also published there is a code of conduct + previous history of complaints. There are many in the industry who would agree that Wasp's guilty of dodgy subscription services should be penalised. WASPA is the route to make that happen.

 

[pip]

If you ever feel you've been short-changed by a WASP, you can lodge a complaint via the WASPA website.
Also published there is a code of conduct + previous history of complaints. There are many in the industry who would agree that Wasp's guilty of dodgy subscription services should be penalised. WASPA is the route to make that happen.

The "history of complaints" cannot count - there are huge gaps in the numbering.

Personally I would prefer a shotgun up their asses as the "route" to make things happen, but that is sadly a fantasy.

 

[bwana]

Vodacom3G, is it not time Vodacom became proactive in these matters? Why can't Vodacom simply introduce a verification scheme, where the user has to sms back that they agree to these terms and conditions and charges on an ongoing basis? It is not right that this sort of thing continues with the cell companies knowing full well that thousands of people fall for such scams.

You know why - it generates revenue. If the odd person complains enough they might get reimbursed but most people will just grin and bare it.

Vodacom, MTN and Cell C need to do something not because it is their responsibility, not because it is their legal obligation (it is neither), but rather because they care about their customers and geniunely don't want to participate in known scams.

refer to above. Maybe they will genuinely care when its easy for clients to leave for greener pastures and take their number with them.

This sort of thing really angers me.

Me too.

 

[Debbie]

Bwana, I didn't feel the need to mention that the Cell companies profit from this sort of thing because A) Obviously they do; and B) I was appealing to Vodacom3G for answers or some kind of an appropriate response, and there really was no need to make this adversarial. Yes they are wrong, there is no need to belabour the point.

I trust V3G will have some input on this matter.

 

[chiskop]

You know why - it generates revenue. If the odd person complains enough they might get reimbursed but most people will just grin and bare it.

Don't you mean bear it? Or do you?

 

[vodacom3g]

Vodacom3G, is it not time Vodacom became proactive in these matters? Why can't Vodacom simply introduce a verification scheme, where the user has to sms back that they agree to these terms and conditions and charges on an ongoing basis? It is not right that this sort of thing continues with the cell companies knowing full well that thousands of people fall for such scams.

It was my understanding that the WASP do have this bi-directional verification in place, but will confirm. I'll activate myself to test as well.

This whole issue of identification management is a big problem, we all want to do stuff on-line but how do we identify ourselves?

Most companies use the method where the originating identity (cell number, e-mail, etc.) is contacted directly and them must verify from that number / address.

We've become a 'click-through' culture, accepting on-line terms and conditions without thinking about the real implications.

This is one of the reasons I've asked for the on-line activation of the unrestricted apn to be removed and be replaced by a old-fashioned paper and signature system.

Sounds like we're going backwards, but I'm waiting for the first complaint from a subscriber who auto-provisioned him/herself, on this apn, then incurred charges because of it, and then claim he/she never provisioned him/herself, it just 'happened' by itself.....and they want a refund.

There's always going to be a dynamic balance between making on-line service easily available and enforcing some level of security. And however much we debate this, we as the end-users must be sure we understand what we're getting into by accepting a service, especially a 'free' one.

Why would a guy in another country give you something for free...?? Think about it.