Appalled at Vodacom for being billed for services I have no knowlegde of

[dominic]

have not been able to keep up with this lively little thread but

- as regards banks and credit cards there is the chargeback procedure...it is the bane of the industry due to high levels of abuse
- do you honestly believe that a network provider must take responsibility for what someone allows others to do on their phone????????????? syndrome of the instant gratification generation who simply refuse to take responsibility
- while there are legitimate claims and complaints against WASPs there are equally a large number of fraudulent attempts to avoid paying for services - where do you propose to strike a balance?

 

[Peter_J]

- as regards banks and credit cards there is the chargeback procedure...it is the bane of the industry due to high levels of abuse
- do you honestly believe that a network provider must take responsibility for what someone allows others to do on their phone????????????? syndrome of the instant gratification generation who simply refuse to take responsibility
- while there are legitimate claims and complaints against WASPs there are equally a large number of fraudulent attempts to avoid paying for services - where do you propose to strike a balance?

IMHO of course. Regards point 1, it also protects us consumers and is necessary. Point 2 - yes, there should be a means of identification, otherwise someone ( you perhaps? ) must rewrite the law of contract. AFAIK it is not currently legal for a handset to enter into a contract. Point 3 - shut them down until there are proper consumer protection mechanisms ( in addition to the ever-helpful vodacom3g! ) in place. They remind me of those "premium" phone services ( were they the original 08* numbers? ) some decades back, that had to get shut down for theit dodgy practices.

 

[Skeptik]

under the WASPA Code the max charge for an unsubscription is R1...

This should be free.

i have stated this elsewhere on the forum but please please follow the WASPA complaints route in respect of matters like this. as an independent adjudicator for WASPA i have seen so much nonsense from WASPs and i can also see that the industry is significantly cleaner thanks to WASPA's efforts

The complaints process appears quite complicated. For example, do you think your elderly mother/grandmother would be able to handle all the questions? Look at the ASASA site for a better electronic complaints system.

under th code of conduct and where a formal complaint is madethe independent adjudicators are given wide powers to deal with matters- reprimands, orders for compensation, fines, suspensions etc. If necessary action can be taken at network level & the rights of an informations providers (acting through a WASP) or of a WASP to use a particular short code or use the networks to access consumers can be suspended or revoked

the process really works

I've had a look at the complaints. My first impression - it's the usual suspects receiving complaints over and over. The fines are initially large, then either get suspended, reduced or rescinded.
e.g.
Date: 2005-12-06
WASPA Member: Integrat
Information Provider: Peach Mobile
Service Type: Subscription service
Source of Complaint Competitor
Complaint Number: #0001 (download PDF)
#0001 Appeal(download PDF)
Result: Complaint upheld
Appeal upheld
Sanctions: Formal reprimand
Requirement to remedy breach
R50,000 fines (rescinded)

note that the WASPA code requires OPT-IN - there must be consent from the recipient before the mail will not be regarded as unsolicited. Bear in mind consent can be direct or indirect - see below. But irrespectve there must be consent...So, for example, if a friend of mine goes to one of these time share presentations and is told that she will get extra entries into a competition for every friend's mobile number she provides. So she provides mine and I get a message offering me time-share specials this is spam. She may have consented but i certainly have not and the scheme n no way tries to verfy whether she has got my consent to hand over the number (=personal information)

Is there an implicit consent if you subscribe to a network, say Vodacom. Can Voda then feel free to send me SMSs or give a WASPA my number?

the moment there WASPA is at the tail end of dealing with the bundling of content with subscriptions - some major penalties have been handed out in the last 2-3 months

I don't see ANY major penalties in the last months on the site. The adjudications are not in date order and are not searchable so I may have missed some.

the major issues now as i see it is not bulk-sms providers but person to person spam - a lot more difficult to deal with (start at www.smscode.co.za)

This has never been a great issue. Whenever I've had some of the more persistent unwanted SMSs from an identifiable number, the network has simply contacted the person on my behalf and warned them. End of that problem.
No need for http://www.waspa.org.za here.

I had a problem with Cellsmart Tech. The first was finding out it was them in the first place because the originating number was not listed. When finally I was given their number, I called the MD. He was very obnoxious and refused to tell me where he sourced my number. I hope things have improved since then. I'm still getting spam SMSs from them so I may try the system again.

 

[pip]

This should be free.

I agree - why the hell should you PAY to get rid of their cr@p????

 

[dominic]

This should be free.

could not agree more

The complaints process appears quite complicated. For example, do you think your elderly mother/grandmother would be able to handle all the questions? Look at the ASASA site for a better electronic complaints system.

to be clear i do not speak for or represent waspa and i am most certainly not an apologist for WASPs that act unethically. There are a lot of things which my dear elderly mother finds challenging techwise (if gran managed it 23 years beyond the grave it would be special). Having said that I take (the less dramatic portion of) your point and will pass the thought and ASASA reference on

I've had a look at the complaints. My first impression - it's the usual suspects receiving complaints over and over. The fines are initially large, then either get suspended, reduced or rescinded.
e.g.
Date: 2005-12-06
WASPA Member: Integrat
Information Provider: Peach Mobile
Service Type: Subscription service
Source of Complaint Competitor
Complaint Number: #0001 (download PDF)
#0001 Appeal(download PDF)
Result: Complaint upheld
Appeal upheld
Sanctions: Formal reprimand
Requirement to remedy breach
R50,000 fines (rescinded)

you didn't just walk into the nick did you? - maybe do some more reading.....i can't help you more than to say i have seen it work; i have seen people compensated; i have seen information providers having their access suspended;i have seen short codes being suspended; i have seen competitions closed down

there is a genuine effort taking place. maybe try for a second impression

Is there an implicit consent if you subscribe to a network, say Vodacom. Can Voda then feel free to send me SMSs or give a WASPA my number?

implicit consent could be construed from the recent business relationship (see post above with quote from WASPA code). before they coud give your number to a WASP they would have to have your consent (i will agree that often this consent is unacceptably obscure or hidden in the fine print)

I don't see ANY major penalties in the last months on the site. The adjudications are not in date order and are not searchable so I may have missed some.

website functionality is being upgraded - most of the adjudications were completed recently as WASPA geared up

This has never been a great issue. Whenever I've had some of the more persistent unwanted SMSs from an identifiable number, the network has simply contacted the person on my behalf and warned them. End of that problem.
No need for http://www.waspa.org.za here.

persistent unwanted problems SMSs are not the only issue out there - as stated above the waspa process has clearly benefitted some.

probably less than 10% of the population are as educated and resourceful and tech-capable as you are (excuse the assumption)

I had a problem with Cellsmart Tech. The first was finding out it was them in the first place because the originating number was not listed. When finally I was given their number, I called the MD. He was very obnoxious and refused to tell me where he sourced my number. I hope things have improved since then. I'm still getting spam SMSs from them so I may try the system again.

i hope you have a more productive experience

@ the end of the day it is my position that the industry is cleaner due to the presence and activities of WASPA - sure the system could be better and more could be done and there are people actively working on these things but i am happy to give my (voluntary) time to what i regard as a consumer-positive initiative

 

[metoman]

Just Quick Feedback for your guys regarding my Problem With the charges on my account for the content services.

Uptil now its not been resolve. I still waiting for concrete proof. That I am responsible for the charges and that I benefited out of it. Yes vodacom wasp services did sent me a email with their version of proof, but that did not fly by me.

A lady by the name of Sasobeth Swartz Executive (Client Liaison Officer Managing Director's Office) apparenty is dealing with it. But I had no joy from her up till now.
So any advice how to deal with these big companies.?????????

 

[BTTB]

Grrrrr

Well Well Well.

I have 5 pages of thread to read here.

I have just noticed the same thing on both of my Cell Phone Numbers.
R20x2=R40

As I must still read the thread in it's entirety I will reserve comment for now.
At the moment I am not impressed at all.
If this matter is not resolved I will be the first customer well on the way to Number Portability.

Grrr.

 

[pierresepos]

I have the same problem. My underage daughter saw this advert on TV and sms the number and word. Suddenly I am subscribed to a third party service!

This is really incredible (please read unbelievable) since Vodacom now start to give out my money to this third party!

Right, I unsubscribe (got that info from the WASPA page) from the service.

I now called Vodacom Customer Care. The do not want to take ANY responsibility for paying out my money to third parties. The have some mambo jumbo about child locks etc.

There is only one solution to this:

We MUST demand a law that prohibit the payment of any moneys to third parties from any cellphone accounts. Cellphone companies ARE NOT BANKS.

 

[JK8]

I have the same problem. My underage daughter saw this advert on TV and sms the number and word. Suddenly I am subscribed to a third party service!

This is really incredible (please read unbelievable) since Vodacom now start to give out my money to this third party!

Right, I unsubscribe (got that info from the WASPA page) from the service.

I now called Vodacom Customer Care. The do not want to take ANY responsibility for paying out my money to third parties. The have some mambo jumbo about child locks etc.

There is only one solution to this:

We MUST demand a law that prohibit the payment of any moneys to third parties from any cellphone accounts. Cellphone companies ARE NOT BANKS.

The SP's cant take any responsibility for it, they dont even make money of those services.
If you fall for the ad thats your fault!
Most of these ads on TV are just there to con you anyway, last night I saw Jamster charges R20 per week subscription!!

The SPs will refund you only if its a mistake on their part. They not telling you to sms that number on TV.
If you send that sms its unfortunatley your fault.

Becareful!!

 

[rph72]

I've often wondered - When you send the unsubscribe message how much are you charged if it goes to the same number?

Received a spam sms from www.justnottalk.co.za. They want to charge me R1 to opt out by sending them STOP SMS. What a damn cheek...

 

[Dirk L]

Hi,

We have just been billed for content services on both me and my wife's phones. As far as I know, it should just be ShowMax. So my wife phoned Vodacom and they said they would cancel all the other subscriptions.

And I'm totally in agreement that if I subscribed to stuff, it is my responsibility, not Vodacom's.

BUT

My question is, how can I get proof that I subscribed.
1. Where can I see who the WASP is and how I subscribed?
2. Neither me or my wife got any sms's to confirm that we subscribed. Surely if I clicked on an ad by mistake not realising what I did, they should send me a confirmation sms or something.
3. If i did not confirm my subscription and they cannot proof I subscribed, do I get my money back?

One cannot simply just get a Bill at the end of the month out of the blue, surely there should be some notification telling you that you have subscribed to a service. If not from the WASP then at least from Vodacom!

Edit 1: Just got sms's from Vodacom that we’ve been unsubscribed from "VIP Games", "Mobile Academy" and "Tweak Mobile". Who is that?

How can they send me an sms that I've been unsubscribed (thanks for that), but they can’t do the same once you are allegedly subscribed?

Edit 2: According to this article there should be a double opt in: https://mybroadband.co.za/news/cellular/97071-disappearing-airtime-unsubscribe-all-wasps.html

Thanks