Apple Users Are ‘Trapped’ in App Store, Epic Says at Trial

KleinBoontjie

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Why don't apple just stop allowing any 3rd party from putting stuff on their app store and make all their own alternatives.
 

Ockie

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There's no obligation for Apple who makes both the device and store to allow other stores on the devices they build.
Imagine a world where we could only install Microsoft software on our machines because we are running Windows.
 

Looney

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Not saying there is anything wrong with them. Just saying people dont have a choice unlike Android users. Imagine if Windows only allowed you to use their Edge browser and you were not allowed to use Chrome. Sure, there is nothing wrong with Edge maybe, but some people want to use Chrome instead on their machines.

But Apple does allow certain apps to be set as default. Maybe not every single app. Sure, late to the party but it’s possible to do now.

If anything Apple have become less restrictive than they used to be.
 

Ockie

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Poor example though. A browser is something that is broadly used (and iOS do allow support of various browsers). Better example would be - imagine Windows only allowed you to use the Windows Calculator. Who cares :D
Maybe not for you, but the messages app and the dialer app for many others are frequently used. Just because you dont phone people dont mean others dont.
 

Looney

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Maybe not for you, but the messages app and the dialer app for many others are frequently used. Just because you dont phone people dont mean others dont.

But what can other dialers and messages apps do that the Apple ones can’t? I guess for me that’s a non-issue but maybe for you it’s a deal breaker. To each his own.
 

Johnatan56

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They should also talk about Apple not allowing their customers to use 3rd party dialer and SMS apps. If they did, I wonder what the uptake would be for example people switching to either Phone by Google and Google Messages (with RCS messaging) instead of using the default Apple apps. Appart from tech savvy people, I would guess unfortunately not big knowing Iphone people lol.
1620114715022.png

Currently they are not implementing the full 5G spec, once they do they will need to have RCS support, plus you need it for the GSMA logo. Will see how they get around it in the next few years, as in what part of the spec they will not implement in order to get around having to have RCS support.

RCS is great for when someone doesn't have WhatsApp/Telegram, have a couple of people that only use Facebook Messenger, and I refuse to download that app as it's always been a power hog.
 

Ockie

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But what can other dialers and messages apps do that the Apple ones can’t? I guess for me that’s a non-issue but maybe for you it’s a deal breaker. To each his own.

It is about choice. That is what it is about. Like I said. Most browsers can do the same thing, but some use MS Edge, Most use Chrome, some use Brave and some use Opera. They achieve the same thing pretty much, but people have their preference. Why is this concept so hard to understand for you guys? I am not saying there is anything wrong with the Apple dialer and SMS apps. I am saying give your customers a choice, same as we have on Android and same as we have on Windows and Linux. That is all.
 

UrBaN963

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Imagine a world where we could only install Microsoft software on our machines because we are running Windows.
No Ockie. I get your point, but what you have said here ISN'T the case. You can install any software from the App Store, from ANY developer.

What you mean to say is, "imagine you could only install software on your PC from the Windows Store". And yes, that would probably suck quite a bit.

But having also used Android, and the majority of Android users I know, simply download from the Google Play store.

Again, the dialer and messaging app are obviously big ones for you so I get your frustration. I don't share it though as it's a non-issue for me. One area it does bug me is not being able to make Waze the default GPS app. But I just have a shortcut and load it manually if I want to go somewhere. I don't know how much time I'd save having it as the default, maybe 5 minutes a year.
 

Ockie

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View attachment 1062229

Currently they are not implementing the full 5G spec, once they do they will need to have RCS support, plus you need it for the GSMA logo. Will see how they get around it in the next few years, as in what part of the spec they will not implement in order to get around having to have RCS support.

RCS is great for when someone doesn't have WhatsApp/Telegram, have a couple of people that only use Facebook Messenger, and I refuse to download that app as it's always been a power hog.

I have some people that is on RCS and not on Telegram also, but very few. But it is nice to fall back to RCS when they dont have Telegram. If they dont have either, well, then I just SMS them and pay for it and they do the same when they reply. It will be interesting to see how Apple handles the RCS and 5G issue.
 

konfab

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The ecosystem is the whole point for Apple users.

Jesus.

"Well you know, BMW insists buyers must have BMW engines in their cars, and we think that's totally unfair" - Epic Games, probably.
The comparison would be:
Your BMW will deliberately kill itself if you don't put non-BMW tyres on it.
 

greg0205

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I think the valid comparison would be only allowed to drive on apple roads with apple fuel.

And BMW petrol and BMW tyres and and...

The engine is fine. It is afterall what makes a BMW a BMW. But imagine you were locked into ONLY use BMW branded consumables on your car, like BMW oil, BMW petrol, BMW tyres, BMW anti freeze, etc. But with BMW you can use Castrol oil, you can by Dunlop tyres for it and so on. You are not locked into their ecosystem so completely.
Missing my ecosystem point.

So maybe that walled garden isn't for you... but I ain't you either.

What works for me works for me. What works for you works for you... The choice I make with my Apple gear is on me, and I choose the App Store as part of that package.

So yeah, where do I sign up for Apple tyres and Apple roads and Apple oil?

Epic have a choice here; meet Apple's developer ToS or sell their games elsewhere...

If bakers can't be forced to sell cakes to gay couples, Apple doesn't have to sell Epic games in their store

'Murica.
 

Looney

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It is about choice. That is what it is about. Like I said. Most browsers can do the same thing, but some use MS Edge, Most use Chrome, some use Brave and some use Opera. They achieve the same thing pretty much, but people have their preference. Why is this concept so hard to understand for you guys? I am not saying there is anything wrong with the Apple dialer and SMS apps. I am saying give your customers a choice, same as we have on Android and same as we have on Windows and Linux. That is all.

iOS will never be open source like Android. There are always going to be certain restrictions. It’s the Apple way, it’s the ecosystem a user buys into, not what apps can be set as default. If a person doesn’t like being restricted in that way then iOS is not for them.

It’s not a concept I don’t understand, it’s just a concept I don’t believe is a deal breaker in my use case.
 

Ockie

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Again, the dialer and messaging app are obviously big ones for you so I get your frustration.
But I am not frustrated. Well not with what you think. What I am frustrated with is you guys (who I presume to be apple users) being so against having a choice. Either you make use of that choice or you just use the phone as it came out of the box with the default apps apple set for you. That is all.

But seems you guys dont mind it and you are happy with being locked to those apps, so that is fine then. I advocate for choice, you guys dont want it, so that is that. No hard feelings lol :)
 

Looney

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But I am not frustrated. Well not with what you think. What I am frustrated with is you guys (who I presume to be apple users) being so against having a choice. Either you make use of that choice or you just use the phone as it came out of the box with the default apps apple set for you. That is all.

But seems you guys dont mind it and you are happy with being locked to those apps, so that is fine then. I advocate for choice, you guys dont want it, so that is that. No hard feelings lol :)

Lol we all have differing opinions on the matter, but it’s a good discussion either way :)
 

DA-LION-619

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But I am not frustrated. Well not with what you think. What I am frustrated with is you guys (who I presume to be apple users) being so against having a choice. Either you make use of that choice or you just use the phone as it came out of the box with the default apps apple set for you. That is all.

But seems you guys dont mind it and you are happy with being locked to those apps, so that is fine then. I advocate for choice, you guys dont want it, so that is that. No hard feelings lol :)
That is a choice, you’re making the same argument as those that are FORCED to use Vuma with their high prices. They really aren’t.
 

konfab

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Epic are going about this wrong IMO

They should rather have put their considerable pile of cash towards developing a way for Android to run on iPhone hardware. Apple would have a much harder time preventing users from doing what they want to with their own hardware.
 

Looney

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That is a choice, you’re making the same argument as those that are FORCED to use Vuma with their high prices. They really aren’t.

Well, sure I have a choice going back to 3mb ADSL as opposed to pay pretty the same, maybe a little more, as I would have on ADSL yet I have a 1 gig line now. So no, I don’t really consider it a choice lol.
 

UrBaN963

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But I am not frustrated. Well not with what you think. What I am frustrated with is you guys (who I presume to be apple users) being so against having a choice. Either you make use of that choice or you just use the phone as it came out of the box with the default apps apple set for you. That is all.

But seems you guys dont mind it and you are happy with being locked to those apps, so that is fine then. I advocate for choice, you guys dont want it, so that is that. No hard feelings lol :)
I get you. I agree with you in that having a choice is ideal and I support the view that we should have one. I don't agree on the particular apps you mention, but I agree with the concept.

I do think Apple is moving in that direction though. With iOS 14 you can set some default apps (email, browser and a few others). I suppose for me the point is more that for the apps I use, I do have a choice. There are a ton of browser, camera, chat apps available. I have Truecaller if I want spam detection, though it would be nice to have that natively.

I don't have a choice with everything and it would be nice if I did, but it isn't a deal-breaker for me, specifically because the apps I don't have a choice with are apps that don't affect me.
 

Vorastra

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Imagine a world where we could only install Microsoft software on our machines because we are running Windows.
It's called an XBOX. MS allows game developers to sell their games on it. They can ban any of them at any time for any reason.

My computer is not made by Microsoft. They have no control over what software, and OS, I install on it.

Windows markets itself as an Operating System, a product where you can install whatever you want on it. That's the product. Thus why they were hit with antitrust regarding bundling their browser as it crushed others who competed with them to make browsers for the OS.

Apple does not market any of its phone, tablet, or watches as such. It markets them as Apple ecosystems. Device and software. One thing.

Do you expect to be able to access the PlayStation Store from your XBOX? No.

BTW, I say that all as a person who dislikes Apple devices (albeit they are well made), and would like it if other stores and such were allowed.
 
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