Apple Users Are ‘Trapped’ in App Store, Epic Says at Trial

Vorastra

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Good point.

I fail to see Epic's angle here as neither Sony, MS or Nintendo allow 3rd party stores on their devices.
The weird thing is that I believe Epic has a better case against Google when Fortnite was booted off the Play Store.
 

greg0205

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It's called an XBOX. MS allows game developers to sell their games on it. They can ban any of them at any time for any reason.

My computer is not made by Microsoft. They have no control over what software, and OS, I install on it.

Windows markets itself as an Operating System, a product where you can install whatever you want on it. That's the product. Thus why they were hit with antitrust regarding bundling their browser as it crushed others who competed with them to make browsers for the OS.

Apple does not market any of its phone, tablet, or watches as such. It markets them as Apple ecosystems. Device and software. One thing.

Do you expect to be able to access the PlayStation Store from your XBOX? No.

BTW, I say that all as a person who dislikes Apple devices (albeit they are well made), and would like it if other stores and such were allowed.
Oh thank god you posted that last 'a person who dislikes Apple devices' bit.

If you and I completely agreed on something, the earth would shift off its axis, and out of its orbit, and hurtle off into deep space.

Thanks for avoiding that catastrophic paradox and saving the planet, Vorastra.

Anyway, 110% on everything you said up to not liking Apple devices. ;)
 
Last edited:

prOd

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At one point during the testimony, Apple's lawyer put up a chart showing the polices of other companies like Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo. That includes taking a 30% commission, prohibiting the side-loading of apps, and requiring the use of a first-party payment system. During another portion of questioning, Sweeney says Epic Games continues to sell V-Bucks on those platforms because it agrees with the business models of those companies.

So this whole lawsuit is just about Sweeney being butthurt
 

UrBaN963

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As an aside, I have discovered an interesting idea recently.

In speaking with many android users in my friend's circle, a common theme amongst them, and reason for not liking iPhones, is because, "they are expensive to run and iOS is costly."

Pulling the thread, not one of them could point to an actual cost, just that they know they are "costly to use". Seems to be an idea that you pay for everything (apps etc) when you use Apple. When I point out I only pay for Netflix and Apple Music (much like they pay for Spotify), they are unable to reconcile this idea. When I show them that downloading apps is free, except a paid app (which is also a paid app on the Google Play Store), they remain skeptical.

Somewhere, the idea has gotten in that Apple users pay for everything. Very strange, very interesting. This is across different friend groups, not isolated.
 

Bryn

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Poor example though. A browser is something that is broadly used (and iOS do allow support of various browsers). Better example would be - imagine Windows only allowed you to use the Windows Calculator. Who cares :D
iOS doesn't allow any sort of genuine competition from other web browsers. They're all forced to render using WebKit, same as Safari.

If Windows only allowed its preinstalled calculator to be used, that would obviously cause quite a problem.

That's not to say I totally back Epic in this - it would just be nice to see app sideloading come to iOS without a need to jailbreak. There are many scenarios where apps do not need Apple's help to reach their audience, and it's only right they should be able to not participate in the App Store environment.

The fact that mega popular Mac apps like Alfred and Transmit aren't in the App Store, as well as a hefty chunk of the excellent selection within the Setapp subscription, should tell you how developers don't like selling through Apple.
 

Bryn

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As an aside, I have discovered an interesting idea recently.

In speaking with many android users in my friend's circle, a common theme amongst them, and reason for not liking iPhones, is because, "they are expensive to run and iOS is costly."

Pulling the thread, not one of them could point to an actual cost, just that they know they are "costly to use". Seems to be an idea that you pay for everything (apps etc) when you use Apple. When I point out I only pay for Netflix and Apple Music (much like they pay for Spotify), they are unable to reconcile this idea. When I show them that downloading apps is free, except a paid app (which is also a paid app on the Google Play Store), they remain skeptical.

Somewhere, the idea has gotten in that Apple users pay for everything. Very strange, very interesting. This is across different friend groups, not isolated.
Cheapskate Android users are most likely not considering iPhone due to the cost of the hardware or contract. I'm an Android and Mac user. I just prefer Android. And I'm the opposite when it comes to app prices - if it's free I'm deeply suspicious. I don't expect people to work for free.
 

Vorastra

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Currently they are not implementing the full 5G spec, once they do they will need to have RCS support, plus you need it for the GSMA logo. Will see how they get around it in the next few years, as in what part of the spec they will not implement in order to get around having to have RCS support.
This would mean literally nothing to Apple.
They could implement the entire 5G spec bar RCS and there's nothing that can be done.
How do we know this? There's literally an iPhone with 5G that doesn't support RCS.

Oh thank god you posted that last 'a person who dislikes Apple devices' bit.

If you and I completely agreed on something, the earth would shift off its axis, and out of its orbit, and hurtle off into deep space.

Thank's for avoiding that catastrophic paradox and saving the planet, Vorastra.

Anyway, 110% on everything you said up to not liking Apple devices. ;)
Apple devices are cool. It's the software approach I dislike. But it's Apple's right to do it.
On that note, by god is Apple's marketing unparalleled. They could sell snow to an eskimo.
AirTags are completely useless to me, but after watching the video, I wanted one.

My ideal device would literally be an iPhone running the Play Store and Apple Store.
 

DA-LION-619

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iOS doesn't allow any sort of genuine competition from other web browsers. They're all forced to render using WebKit, same as Safari.

If Windows only allowed its preinstalled calculator to be used, that would obviously cause quite a problem.

That's not to say I totally back Epic in this - it would just be nice to see app sideloading come to iOS without a need to jailbreak. There are many scenarios where apps do not need Apple's help to reach their audience, and it's only right they should be able to not participate in the App Store environment.

The fact that mega popular Mac apps like Alfred and Transmit aren't in the App Store, as well as a hefty chunk of the excellent selection within the Setapp subscription, should tell you how developers don't like selling through Apple.
You can app sideload without jailbreaking, is it exactly the same thing? Nope, there's some limit to sideloading and more work.
altstore.io

Yes it's unfair you need a Mac to dev, a real iPhone to test, also pay for a developer account but the results of the requirement are better apps.
 

D tj

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I certainly do Not want Epic, Facebook or the ANC or FBI and other governments involved in how Apple deal with my iPhone.
Whilst Apple are not perfect wrt the App Store, a free for all will just make things damn risky for the less tech savvy or those up to date with tech.
Honesty, integrity, trust wrt privacy, the corner stone of things like medicine, banking and security, do not seem to be Epic and Co's main concern.
 

greg0205

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This would mean literally nothing to Apple.
They could implement the entire 5G spec bar RCS and there's nothing that can be done.
How do we know this? There's literally an iPhone with 5G that doesn't support RCS.


Apple devices are cool. It's the software approach I dislike. But it's Apple's right to do it.
On that note, by god is Apple's marketing unparalleled. They could sell snow to an eskimo.
AirTags are completely useless to me, but after watching the video, I wanted one.

My ideal device would literally be an iPhone running the Play Store and Apple Store.
I get that.

Best Apple event I've watched in a while. Tim and his team are learning.

I'm waiting on the new 14" MacBook, but that iPad Pro got me thinking.

Just for a moment, but I thought about it.
 

Bryn

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You can app sideload without jailbreaking, is it exactly the same thing? Nope, there's some limit to sideloading and more work.
altstore.io

Yes it's unfair you need a Mac to dev, a real iPhone to test, also pay for a developer account but the results of the requirement are better apps.
I don't agree that iOS has better apps. I use Android (OnePlus specifically) because I prefer the apps. Either they're Android only, like Relay Pro for Reddit or HiPER Calc Pro, or much better on Android, like Spotify, Pocket Casts, Telegram, WhatsApp, Evernote etc. Or I should say, I think those apps look more modern on Android, with a more efficient use of screen space.

Needing to develop macOS and iOS apps with a Mac is a reasonable requirement.
 

Louis72

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Trapped? It's a choice isn't it? My wife, for example, wouldn't want it any other way. She has no intention or desire of going back to Android.
Exactly, hardly call it trapped. It is convenient that they manage all the payments and subscriptions for apps for me. If I have a dispute there is no hassle getting it resolved.

The Apps on there I know are malware-free and will not harm my phone in any way.
Never had a scenario where an app I wanted was not on the App store and lastly the App store automatically handles my app updates for me. What more do I need?
 

DA-LION-619

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I don't agree that iOS has better apps. I use Android (OnePlus specifically) because I prefer the apps. Either they're Android only, like Relay Pro for Reddit or HiPER Calc Pro, or much better on Android, like Spotify, Pocket Casts, Telegram, WhatsApp, Evernote etc. Or I should say, I think those apps look more modern on Android, with a more efficient use of screen space.

Needing to develop macOS and iOS apps with a Mac is a reasonable requirement.
Sorry I should have said, better apps in the ecosystem or better app ecosystem.

It would be ignorant of me to assume paying to dev/publish means an app would be better, as anyone can release a terrible app across platforms(Sixty60).

Paying to dev/publish just reduces the spam.
 

3WA

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Epic for what?

I only use two apps - Tinder to give me a reason to leave the house, and Uber to give me a way to get back.
 

konfab

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As an aside, I have discovered an interesting idea recently.

In speaking with many android users in my friend's circle, a common theme amongst them, and reason for not liking iPhones, is because, "they are expensive to run and iOS is costly."

Pulling the thread, not one of them could point to an actual cost, just that they know they are "costly to use". Seems to be an idea that you pay for everything (apps etc) when you use Apple. When I point out I only pay for Netflix and Apple Music (much like they pay for Spotify), they are unable to reconcile this idea. When I show them that downloading apps is free, except a paid app (which is also a paid app on the Google Play Store), they remain skeptical.

Somewhere, the idea has gotten in that Apple users pay for everything. Very strange, very interesting. This is across different friend groups, not isolated.
They cost your freedom to use.

https://reclaimthenet.org/apple-censoring-telegram/

Google is doing the same, but unlike Apple, I can click a button in settings and sideload any app I want to.
 

Moosedrool

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30% to apple is pretty steep. I still stand with epic since apple is profiting big time on doing nothing but host other peoples work and sell semen coloured stuff to make it look trendy.
 
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