Arctic ice melt 'like adding 20 years of CO2 emissions'

Techne

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Arctic ice melt 'like adding 20 years of CO2 emissions'

The loss of Arctic ice is massively compounding the effects of greenhouse gas emissions, ice scientist Professor Peter Wadhams has told BBC Newsnight.

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The sea ice extent at 26 August (white) is markedly different from the 1979-2000 average (orange line)

White ice reflects more sunlight than open water, acting like a parasol.

Melting of white Arctic ice, currently at its lowest level in recent history, is causing more absorption.

Prof Wadhams calculates this absorption of the sun's rays is having an effect "the equivalent of about 20 years of additional CO2 being added by man".

The Cambridge University expert says that the Arctic ice cap is "heading for oblivion".

In 1980, the Arctic ice in summer made up some 2% of the Earth's surface. But since then the ice has roughly halved in area.

"Thirty years ago there was typically about eight million square kilometres of ice left in the Arctic in the summer, and by 2007 that had halved, it had gone down to about four million, and this year it has gone down below that," Prof Wadhams said.

And the volume of ice has dropped, with the ice getting thinner:

"The volume of ice in the summer is only a quarter of what it was 30 years ago and that's really the prelude to this final collapse," Prof Wadhams said.

Parts of the Arctic Ocean are now as warm in summer as the North Sea is in winter, Prof Wadhams said.

Radiation absorbed

The polar ice cap acts as a giant parasol, reflecting sunlight back into the atmosphere in what is known as the albedo effect.

But white ice and snow reflect far more of the sun's energy than the open water that is replacing it as the ice melts.

Instead of being reflected away from the Earth, this energy is absorbed, and contributes to warming:

"Over that 1% of the Earth's surface you are replacing a bright surface which reflects nearly all of the radiation falling on it with a dark surface which absorbs nearly all.

"The difference, the extra radiation that's absorbed is, from our calculations, the equivalent of about 20 years of additional CO2 being added by man," Prof Wadhams said.

If his calculations are correct then that means that over recent decades the melting of the Arctic ice cap has put as much heat into the system as all the CO2 we have generated in that time.

And if the ice continues to decline at the current rate it could play an even bigger role than greenhouse gases.

UK weather effect

Professor Wadhams stresses that there are uncertainties - cloud cover over the Arctic could change and help reflect back some of the sun's radiation.

But then another greenhouse gas - methane, currently trapped in the Arctic permafrost - could be released with warming and make matters worse.

The melting ice could have knock-on effects in the UK. Adam Scaife, from the Met Office Hadley Centre told Newsnight it could help explain this year's miserable wet summer, by altering the course of the jet stream.

"Some studies suggest that there is increased risk of wet, low pressure summers over the UK as the ice melts."

There may be an effect for our winters too: "Winter weather could become more easterly cold and snowy as the ice declines," Mr Scaife said.

Opinions vary on the date of the demise of summer sea ice. The Met Office says it is not expecting the Arctic to be completely ice-free in summer until after 2030.
 

killadoob

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I am beginning to think there is no way humans are changing the planet so fast.

http://www.ouramazingplanet.com/1548-underwater-volcanoes-discovered-near-antarctica.html

Something else is going on. Have a look around, volcano's are becoming active, earthquakes everyday. Talk about pole shifts and our magnetic field having a hole in.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0d1_1329039273

Our planet is changing rapidly and it can no longer be blamed on human activity.

The planet is angry and ready for change in a big way. Ancients have documented changes, civilizations have gone extinct and we have no idea why but one thing is for sure it gets repeated over and over.

So many civilizations have disappeared over night but for some reason we think it could never happen to us.
 
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RiaX

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The modern civilisation of today realeases 9 billion tons of carbon dioxide per year on average.

You might think that humans cant change the world, but there are 7 billion humans thats a very large number.
 

noswal

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plant more trees.... Co2 --> oxygen if my memory of school biology classes is correct
 

killadoob

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The modern civilisation of today realeases 9 billion tons of carbon dioxide per year on average.

You might think that humans cant change the world, but there are 7 billion humans thats a very large number.

Yea i understand that.

http://www.naturalnews.com/030996_bird_deaths_pole_shift.html

What happened to all the civilizations that disappeared over night?

Are we causing the earthquakes? Are we causing volcano activity? Something bad is happening to the planet at the moment and nobody knows why or they do and they refuse to tell us. If the past is anything to go by we are due for extinction at some point.
 

RiaX

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LOL, i cant answer that. I can give you a theory of mine though.

Earth is an environment for us, and like all environments it responds hence why we call it mother nature personify it. Equilibrium cannot be broken, we have pushed the limits with modern medicine, modern technologies. We live longer, healthier there is a high survival rate for children. We are reaching the carrying capacity of the environment, so it will respond to decrease the population. When the hippo population goes out of control, they are cut down by anthrax.

We all know about global warming. If you look at disease evolution the worst things that we can do atm is cure HIV and cancer. Until humanity understands the impact of the population on the planet to a point where people stop having 5 kids, we are not ready for these cures. Humans cannot be allowed to experience another population explosion. Either disease or war will kill us all. Look at it this way with STDs. Sometime ago we had a thing called gonorrhea then enter penicillin (gosh it was powerful then everything was a STAT dose). Then syphilis came, that was treated. Then herpes which was contained. Now there is HIV which is devastating. If you look at it as you cure something, something always worse takes its place.

Are we causing the earthquakes?

I think we are. There is more heat energy on the planet. We disrupt the crust by pumping CO2 underground to be greener also by mining gas. Most of the world is now farm land. Melting of polar ice is disrupting currents which act like a radiator from my understanding.

What happened to all the civilizations that disappeared over night?

tsunami? disease? commandos? who knows
 

w1z4rd

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I am beginning to think there is no way humans are changing the planet so fast.
Beginning to think? BEGINNING TO THINK??!?!?! Are you fking serious? You have always blamed everything BUT humans! God thats slimy. Have you no decency?

@Techne: a respect-worthy thread about an important issue. Thank you.
 

killadoob

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Beginning to think? BEGINNING TO THINK??!?!?! Are you fking serious? You have always blamed everything BUT humans! God thats slimy. Have you no decency?

@Techne: a respect-worthy thread about an important issue. Thank you.

I have always said we could be causing the change, i never ruled it out. I stated that i now think there is no possible way humans are changing our planet.

Things are changing way too rapidly for humans to be causing it.

To blame all the earthquakes we are seeing and all the volcano's that are now active on humans is beyond silly.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/03/0313_030313_mayadrought_2.html

The maya extinct due to climate change? Can't be, they never released all the pollution we are so how did the climate change ghoti?
 
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w1z4rd

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I have always said we could be causing the change, i never ruled it out. I stated that i now think there is no possible way humans are changing our planet.

Only problem in all of this. Your opinion matters absolutely nothing. Your opinion doesnt change reality. Smarter people than you will be calling the shots :)
 

killadoob

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Only problem in all of this. Your opinion matters absolutely nothing. Your opinion doesnt change reality. Thank goodness people like you will never ever have any power or influence of any type.

So you have nothing to say about the mayans possibly dying out due to climate change?

Other human societies have succumbed to climate swings. In Mesopotamia, a canal-supported agricultural society collapsed after a severe 200-year drought about 3,400 years ago. With wetter conditions, civilizations thrived in the Mediterranean, Egypt, and West Asia. Ten years after their economic peak in 2,300 B.C., however, catastrophic droughts and cooling hurt agricultural production and caused regional collapse.

Other societies, however, have survived past climate changes by changing their behavior in response to environmental change. About 300 years after the Mayan collapse, the Chumash people on California's Channel Islands survived severe droughts by transforming themselves from hunter-gatherers into traders.
 

w1z4rd

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So you have nothing to say about the mayans possibly dying out due to climate change?

If you knew anything about reality you would know you get many different types of climate changes. Those that are localized, those that are global. That are caused by many different reasons. Your argument is naive. In fact, the only thing your argument proves is that you know less about climate change science than a shoe.
 

killadoob

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If you knew anything about reality you would know you get many different types of climate changes. Those that are localized, those that are global. That are caused by many different reasons. Your argument is naive. In fact, the only thing your argument proves is that you know less about climate change science than a shoe.

It changes so often i must admit i struggle to keep up with it. It changes when the argument is no longer applicable. What happened to global warming, now it's climate change.

http://poleshift.com/magnetic-reversals

Our geomagnetic field is responsible for blocking out roughly 50% of cosmic rays [Nature]… so if our “shields are down”, cosmic radiation would double. While this would lead to increased mutations, double the current rate is nothing to worry about. However, two of the possible triggers for a magnetic pole shift are a result of increases in solar activity. This could result in an increased in charged particles from the Sun reaching Earth as well. And that could spell trouble.

Surely that makes as much sense as mankind causing global warming, i mean climate change sorry global climate change. What is it called now ghoti?

Our shield is down captain

Nasa finds hole in our magnetic field 10 x bigger than anyone ever imagined

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2008/16dec_giantbreach/

Man mad global warming on mars, o wait sorry global warming on mars
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2003/07aug_southpole/

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html
 
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RiaX

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Dont you mean global warming on venus ?

Besides isnt it irrelevant to reference another planet because space weather is very dynamic ?
 

w1z4rd

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Ask Chuck Norris

If you ask Chuck Norris he will say its because Obama got re-elected.

[video=youtube;Wg14hRntRpg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg14hRntRpg[/video]

A thousand years of darkness!!!
 

Unhappy438

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Things are changing way too rapidly for humans to be causing it.

Why?

To blame all the earthquakes we are seeing and all the volcano's that are now active on humans is beyond silly.

I dont think anyone has blamed all disasters on man made climate change.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/03/0313_030313_mayadrought_2.html

The maya extinct due to climate change? Can't be, they never released all the pollution we are so how did the climate change ghoti?

Again i dont think anyone would argue that the climate doesnt change by itself , the ice age is proof of this. Its the rate of change and height of change that man is causing.
 
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