Are manual cars still a thing? Is there even a future for the old gear stick?

[Nirv]

Well, I guess this is the new Manual vs Automatic thread now. Its always nice revisiting this argument every couple of months.

I seem to remember the manuals had more support last time around. Looks like sentiment is shifting (no pun intended).

 

[Rocket-Boy]

There are plenty cheap autos... yeah.. but they're all shyte...

I drive plenty of rentals with business travel, I wont take an auto in a small car because they are all horrible.
My daily driver is auto but its German and has an engine that suits the gearbox.

 

[Geoff.D]

Well I had to fix an OLD manual transmission on my bakkie and it was not in the slightest cheap. 5 years ago it was around R14k to recondition the gearbox. The auto box on my 320D would cost me R70k at the moment to sort out if it went pop... I reckon a newish manual gearbox won't be significantly cheaper to fix with all the electronics and shyte inside it.

This!

 

[ToxicBunny]

This!

I would say anything from the last 15 years will have heavy electronics etc in either automagic or manual gearboxes... so the cost to fix from that point on will not be quite as wide as before that point in time.

 

[Geoff.D]

You do realise these big bad manufacturers only exist to supply goods that customers want? A manufacturer that supplies a product that all us stupid customers don't want, doesn't stay a manufacturer for very long....

No, wrong. The actual "need" or "want" we are satisfying is "personal transport". Once that point is reached we might have a choice not based on price. So most people buy what they can get within their price range, and are totally at the mercy of the large manufacturers.

If the manufacturers take manuals off the supply, "we" will have no choice but to capitulate IF we want to satisfy our need for personal transport.

 

[HunterNW]

 

[Geoff.D]

I would say anything from the last 15 years will have heavy electronics etc in either automagic or manual gearboxes... so the cost to fix from that point on will not be quite as wide as before that point in time.

Agreed. Even my 2005 manual 4x4 is loaded with bladdy electronics, especially the selection of 4H and 4L plus diff lock.

 

[Geoff.D]

I drive plenty of rentals with business travel, I wont take an auto in a small car because they are all horrible.
My daily driver is auto but its German and has an engine that suits the gearbox.

This is precisely how my own bias was reinforced. I hired a car from Avis for an extended trip at CT airport for return in PTA and I ended up with a damn automatic, POS, which I was stuck with for that entire trip.
Cured my inquisitiveness about automatics for life. (not one of the Avis depots en route wanted to swap it out).

 

[supersunbird]

I would say anything from the last 15 years will have heavy electronics etc in either automagic or manual gearboxes... so the cost to fix from that point on will not be quite as wide as before that point in time.

I doubt any cheapish (sub R350 000) new manual vehicles have heavy electronics in the gearboxes... what would be the point?

 

[Splinter]

No, wrong. The actual "need" or "want" we are satisfying is "personal transport". Once that point is reached we might have a choice not based on price. So most people buy what they can get within their price range, and are totally at the mercy of the large manufacturers.

If the manufacturers take manuals off the supply, "we" will have no choice but to capitulate IF we want to satisfy our need for personal transport.

No, you are wrong. Automatics have traditionally been more expensive than manuals. It is customer demand that has made them more popular and more numerous over time, as they improved significantly.

You are essentially trying to say that manuals are better and cheaper, but somehow manufacturers force consumers to buy the more expensive and inferior automatics.

 

[Splinter]

This is precisely how my own bias was reinforced. I hired a car from Avis for an extended trip at CT airport for return in PTA (6 000km) and I ended up with a damn automatic, POS, which I was stuck with for that 6 000km.
Cured me inquisitiveness about automatics for life. (not one of the Avis depots en route wanted to swap it out).

Besides your innate bias, what exactly was wrong with the auto?

 

[BigAl-sa]

The first was a third generation Everest. 2.2 6 speed manual 2x4. The new one is the 2019 model 2.2 10 speed auto 2x4. Same engine, same diff, same tyres, only difference (other than the gearbox) are cosmetic.

What about the huge difference in the way the computer controls the engine and the gear changes? Just the output on the engine is up by almost 10kW through mainly computer tweaking between the 2015 and 2019 2.2L engines.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I doubt any cheapish (sub R350 000) new manual vehicles have heavy electronics in the gearboxes... what would be the point?

I think you would be surprised...

I remember driving a rental picanto a few years back, and even that POS had electronics in the gearbox, or surrounding it in terms of the way it was integrated into the car and its systems.

 

[R13...]

Autos also seem to sell cheaper as used cars in this country compared to their stick counterparts.

 

[Spliffcat]

Stick in the bush.
Off road can't see an auto in my future.

 

[SykomantiS]

What about 30 minutes to an hour in slow crawling traffic. each and every day? (which is not the same as a long commute)

You mean my exact commute through Pretoria cbd? I have a manual diesel Civic (wife has a Q5 auto). My preference for auto vs manual drifts from the one to the other. At this point in time I like both. Depends on the day and my mood as to which one I prefer.

 

[Rocket-Boy]

This is precisely how my own bias was reinforced. I hired a car from Avis for an extended trip at CT airport for return in PTA and I ended up with a damn automatic, POS, which I was stuck with for that entire trip.
Cured me inquisitiveness about automatics for life. (not one of the Avis depots en route wanted to swap it out).

Yeah it would do that for sure.
Interestingly it was a hire car that built my love for automatics(good ones!)
I landed in Durban and the rental company had made a mistake and sent my car out. All they had left was an A class Merc which was auto so they gave it to me for the week.
After that I was convinced my next car would be automatic. A good modern auto is a wonderful thing.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Yeah it would do that for sure.
Interestingly it was a hire car that built my love for automatics(good ones!)
I landed in Durban and the rental company had made a mistake and sent my car out. All they had left was an A class Merc which was auto so they gave it to me for the week.
After that I was convinced my next car would be automatic. A good modern auto is a wonderful thing.

100% this...

The modern auto's are just that much better than the manuals these days for comfortable driving. In some cases they may even be better with spirited driving as well.

 

[The Voice]

Thing with autos is that it depends on which make it is and which car/engine it's mated to. Most complaints come from people who have driven automatic Nissan, Suzuki, Hyundai, Mistubishi, Renault, Jeep, Kia, Daewoo and VW/Seat/Skoda (non DSG) models. What's the one thing they all have in common? Their gearboxes were made by Jatco. If you have the time, Google "Jatco transmission problems" for a laugh. It's one of the reasons Mazda decided to take production of their automatic transmissions in-house, and the results are infinitely better.

It's also very important to note the difference between automatic, CVT and DSG/DCT transmissions because they are very different, all operate differently and all have a different driving experience. You can't drive a DSG like an automatic, for example, because you're just going to break it (like a manual doesn't run well in stop/start/crawling along traffic, and just wears out the clutches quicker).

 

[Willie Trombone]

The first was a third generation Everest. 2.2 6 speed manual 2x4. The new one is the 2019 model 2.2 10 speed auto 2x4. Same engine, same diff, same tyres, only difference (other than the gearbox) are cosmetic.

Ford claim identical fuel consumption in both, you may have had a lemon last time around.