Are privately owned power plants the solution?

Are private power plants the solution?

  • Yes

    Votes: 231 84.3%
  • No

    Votes: 13 4.7%
  • Other

    Votes: 30 10.9%

  • Total voters
    274

The Trutherizer

Executive Member
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
5,089
Yes. But, not to keep Eskom as we know it today. Eskom can play a great role as the central broker. Their skills at actually generating power is somewhat... lacking. And that can't be fixed in an expedient manner.
 

Geoff.D

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
24,599
Yes. But, not to keep Eskom as we know it today. Eskom can play a great role as the central broker. Their skills at actually generating power is somewhat... lacking. And that can't be fixed in an expedient manner.
Rubbish. There is nothing wrong with Eskom that proper engineering based management can't fix in Eskom.
Eskoms problem is the stupid idea that a highly technical operation can be run by sociologists, bean counters and marketing idiots all appointed by a corrupt government.
 

ToxicBunny

Oi! Leave me out of this...
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
99,490
Rubbish. There is nothing wrong with Eskom that proper engineering based management can't fix in Eskom.
Eskoms problem is the stupid idea that a highly technical operation can be run by sociologists, bean counters and marketing idiots all appointed by a corrupt government.

At the core of it, yes.

Eskom needs to be run by technocrats basically. It is so crucial to the functioning of this countries economy that the government can't be entrusted with any aspect of it.
 

The Trutherizer

Executive Member
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
5,089
Rubbish. There is nothing wrong with Eskom that proper engineering based management can't fix in Eskom.
Eskoms problem is the stupid idea that a highly technical operation can be run by sociologists, bean counters and marketing idiots all appointed by a corrupt government.
So... How to solve that? In a way which might actually occur before hell freezes over I should add.
 

Moto Guzzi

Expert Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Messages
1,702
The reasons I say no:
1-History of modern times, it just get more expensive.
2-You have to differenciate between centralised management and centralised technical systems.
-Centralised management over technical, can end up being a huge problem for the users/customers, meaning its out of touch with the area of operation.
-Splitting up leads to duplication/triplication of top management, which now have to negociate between each other through endless red tape, causing headaches for customers.
3-If a good working entity turn bad, it rot from the top, and if that is not fixed you get multiple times the rot if you split it in sections and overmanaged as wel. The entity that functioned good before had various sections as well, they just operated in sync with dissiline.

So the thing is if you don't understand the problem(Same type of people just different organisation), seeing you could not fix it, splitting it will just aggrevate the problems and cost will rise, yes a few will get rich.

I say this because electricity is one of the basic resources, that cannot be allowed to be mismanaged or conducted at high costs, if so it will exponentially crash monetary systems from the user perspective. The last 30 years this practise happenned and life did not got better for most worldwide, except a few.

You must understand the reason you cannot fix a problem, or it will turn into a chronic situation.
 
Last edited:

koeks525

Expert Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2012
Messages
4,977
I am not sure if the rise of privately owned power utilities would mean good news for consumers. Sure, the capacity problem will be solved, but, I am not sure if that will bring lower costs to the consumer. If the privately owned power plants sell their electricity to Eskom or the municipalities, I can see muncipalities and Eskom not dropping their prices since they the only two that can provide electricity to the consumer. If privately owned power plants can sell directly to the consumer, we may see competitive electricity pricing across the board.
 

RedViking

Nord of the South
Joined
Feb 23, 2012
Messages
41,705
Other.
Should be a combination of PPP's and each house to have at least 30-50% Solar feeding back into the PPP's grid.
 

Easter Bunny

Expert Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
1,722
other: private power plants must not get exclusive rights to supply an area. i don't want to be stuck paying 100x the price that someone in another place is paying. then, also, if something happens to the CronyPower plant that supplies my area, i don't want GuptaPower to step in to supply electricity at inflated prices.
 

MikeMike

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 30, 2017
Messages
117
Not the best idea, lest we have another Enron... and bills will be passed for BBBEE compliance.
 

Wary GOM

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2019
Messages
1,626
The answer has to be Other for me. Being totally one or the other means that the variety of abuses and limitations to each becomes THE major limitation of that implementation.

Private versus government is not a comparison between renewable and non renewable which is where quite a few posts have gone off the rails.
 

Veneficus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
452
other: private power plants must not get exclusive rights to supply an area. i don't want to be stuck paying 100x the price that someone in another place is paying. then, also, if something happens to the CronyPower plant that supplies my area, i don't want GuptaPower to step in to supply electricity at inflated prices.
that is the thing
Each area should have the right to move to any power service that provides reliable power for cheapest price
 

Johand

Expert Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2005
Messages
1,767
Private ownership is not the panacea some people like to believe it is.

Somebody has to regulate the market. Anyone who thinks private business can just do this on their own is entirely delusional.

NERSA is exactly that - important to keep regulator independent from generator. Private ownership does not mean complete deregulation.

No, privately owned power suppliers alone are not sufficient. We also need deregulation. The State needs you get out of the business of generating, distributing and regulating power.

We can go some way into more deregulation but complete deregulation is just nuts. Deregulate self-generation. But we need more regulations to force municipalities to adopt feed-in. We also need regulation to ensure the "natural monopoly" items like transmission are properly handled. Some regulation to ensure minimum baseload availability as well as grid stability.

We can't have a situation where everybody just build PV solar without batteries / pumped-storage /wind (by themselves or balanced by other providers on the grid). You also need to ensure renewables are appropriately geographically distributed to make sure we don't black out when there is a single cloudy day in the Northern Cape.

One of the problems in electricity is that your infrastructure must be over provisioned. You can't just say you have x apples that you are selling. The generation and storage must exceed demand (you need buffers). So you need to also sort out how you will pay people for having capacity available where they are not necessarily selling power generated by that capacity.

We also probably need a "auction" market where prices can be floating (within some limits) in smaller timeslots (currently we only have 4 slots). Again - this is to make sure that the market pays appropriately to drive the right mix of generation/storage/transmission.
 

spiff

Executive Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
5,543
as long as there is more than 1 supplier and there is healthy competition - but history shows there can never be competition in SA.
 

Spike.Hodge

Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2017
Messages
12
Reliability is not guaranteed. Private businesses seek only to make a profit. If they can do that providing an unreliable service they will. And they certainly can in the case of electricity generation.
But generally they can't. The reliable ones will do better. If you can't generate it you can't bill for it - that is the big difference between Eskom and private.
 
Last edited:

wbot

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Messages
5,514
Anything privately and not state owned is the solution.
 

dontspeak

Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2016
Messages
25
Yes. However, like everything profit-driven, some areas might be left unserviced if they are not profitable to the owners.
 
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