Are you planning to leave South Africa?

Are you planning to leave South Africa?

  • Yes

    Votes: 317 59.9%
  • No

    Votes: 212 40.1%

  • Total voters
    529

Sinbad

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
66,995
My housemate's brother also had that support of family etc initially. That hasn't helped them in the long run. Now stuck down in Dunedin and the wife can't get a job and is suffering from depression.

But everyone is different. I'm sure you'll have a great time.
Difference being I have in-demand skills, as does my wife. I am also extremely good at what I do, as is she. I will never be "stuck" somewhere I don't want to be. It's not in my nature or experience. I make things happen, I am not a passive participant in my life.
 

Milano

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 7, 2004
Messages
12,526
For 10 bar I can buy the most amazing properties in SA.
General rule: The worse the country, the more you will get for your money when it comes to property. For R10m you would likely get a palace in Syria or Somalia.
 

Botha22

Active Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
87
Out of interest why do some people prefer NZ over Australia here? NZ just seems like the smaller cousin of Australia :p
I suspect because the NZ job market is less competitive, people think it's easier to get in than Australia.

A large number of New Zealanders themselves also emmigrate to Australia, so you can't argue that New Zealand is better.
 

Johnatan56

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
25,349
Yes, should have moved by the end of 2020 latest, just finishing up studies here. Actually have a flight booked, just not sure whether I'll come back and head back up again for my graduation, lol.
Family owns property there, so would only need to get a car (property is actually double/triple the size of our CT one so opposite of a lot of people commenting about Europe here, and would be less transit time to work for me...).
Job wise, I'm pretty well qualified and the question is more if I want to pursue my PhD or want to go driectly into a working environment, either path pays pretty well and have gotten offers for both directions, way more than entering the market here; with the market here being a little too small to do what I want, so I'd have to go to Amazon or find someone doing work for large, international players.
I also have it easier than most, have the passport, speak the language and fit in with the culture, plus friends there already in the industry I want to work in.

@rpm, if you redo a poll like this, consider adding years to it, so:
Yes - 2019
Yes - 2020
Yes - 2020-2025
Yes - post 2025
Yes - already have
No

It would be interesting to see time frames.
 
Last edited:

Botha22

Active Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
87
Would be interesting to also hear the thoughts of the person who started this thread - rpm, staff member, admin? It seems like we are getting a bucket load of emmigration articles on Mybroadband.
 

biometrics

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 7, 2003
Messages
70,992
Difference being I have in-demand skills, as does my wife. I am also extremely good at what I do, as is she. I will never be "stuck" somewhere I don't want to be. It's not in my nature or experience. I make things happen, I am not a passive participant in my life.
A lawyer and teacher aren't bad professions. Guess there just isn't as much work in areas with reasonable housing.

I'm sure it will go swimmingly for you.
 

Milano

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 7, 2004
Messages
12,526
Would be interesting to also hear the thoughts of the person who started this thread - rpm, staff member, admin? It seems like we are getting a bucket load of emmigration articles on Mybroadband.
From the number of posts and votes it always appears there is a bucket load of interest in the topic of emigration.
 

Chris_the_Brit

High Tory
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Messages
26,597
Would be interesting to also hear the thoughts of the person who started this thread - rpm, staff member, admin? It seems like we are getting a bucket load of emmigration articles on Mybroadband.
The typical profile of a MyBroadband user lends itself to articles about emigration.
 

noxibox

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
17,809
I'd be walking away from a comfortable job and salary so i also have my reservations, but I do feel like SA is a ticking bomb and the future here is very uncertain -I know if I had a kid it would be a no-brainer for me, I'd have left ages ago.
Even moving cities becomes a harder decision for me when children are involved. They're happy at school, do I want to disrupt that? Can I even find the right sort of school in the new location, and if I can is it affordable. Assuming it is will my children get in? And that's just one aspect of upending their lives.

That is true but I wouldn't say the cost of living is sky high considering your earning potential is also higher.
For instance , the Job I have here pays 1/3 of similar potions in NZ whereas the cost of living is +-35% more expensive than SA...
House prices are a separate issue. Also for many people the pay they'll get in another country will not be nearly so dramatically higher. A good deal of people are likely to find themselves earning essentially the same relative to local living costs, excluding property.

I suspect because the NZ job market is less competitive, people think it's easier to get in than Australia.

A large number of New Zealanders themselves also emmigrate to Australia, so you can't argue that New Zealand is better.
It is easier to get into New Zealand. Many people in New Zealand would love to live somewhere else which contributes to making it easier to get into. I think New Zealand has an emigration proble
 

Sinbad

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
66,995
It is easier to get into New Zealand. Many people in New Zealand would love to live somewhere else which contributes to making it easier to get into. I think New Zealand has an emigration proble
A lot of young people left NZ for a more exciting life - NZ is very chilled. Has left a gap in the population in the early middle-aged segment:
713965
 

Kelerei

Expert Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
1,030
It is easier to get into New Zealand. Many people in New Zealand would love to live somewhere else which contributes to making it easier to get into. I think New Zealand has an emigration proble
Having been through this process, I would respectfully disagree with your premise that New Zealand is any easier than a lot of the "popular" destinations.

For the typical MyBroadband demographic (young, skilled professionals), and who are considering New Zealand as their new home, the end goal from an immigration perspective would be to obtain a Resident Visa, and most likely under the Skilled Migrant Category (unless they win the Lotto and can get a Resident Visa through the business investor categories, or find a Kiwi partner and can make use of the partnership categories). It's a points based system, where one earns points for age, qualifications, employability, etc., and 160 points gets your application drawn out of the pool and you are invited to apply for residence.

The thing is, that 160 point threshold is almost impossible to attain without having current skilled employment in NZ. It is possible, if the planets align and you have the right set of circumstances, but for the vast majority of people, they need to be employed in NZ before being able to apply. Anyone looking for proof of this need look no further than INZ's fortnightly selection statistics -- for the last selection on September 4th, 2019, 85% of people selected were already in NZ, working on a Work Visa. Getting a skilled job offer in NZ is therefore central the chances of securing residence.

And this is where things get really tough, because when it comes to getting a Work Visa, there is a disconnect between what employers want and what the government wants. For most categories of a Work Visa, one needs an offer of employment (getting a Work Visa as the partner of an existing Work Visa holder is the only significant exception), but very few employers will offer you employment if you don't already have a Work Visa. It's the classic chicken and egg scenario ("which came first?"). You also have almost no chance of getting that offer of employment if you're offshore -- employers are unlikely to take you seriously. It's not impossible -- I have a close friend who somehow obtained an offer of employment while offshore -- but exceptionally rare.

So, for most people, the process is: get a three month Visitor Visa, resign, come over here, try to find a company that will actually grant you an interview while on a Visitor Visa, somehow get that job offer before the Visitor Visa runs out (or your funds, given the depreciating value of the Rand), get your Work Visa so you can start earning Kiwi dollars and bring your family back home over, and then get that Resident Visa. It's a brutal and risky process where only the most employable can hope to succeed.

If you want to know just how brutal this is, these are the typical experiences that my immigration advisor shared with me, and what I can definitely relate to as I had the same experience myself:

During the first two weeks, excitement is high, even when viewed through the inevitable jet-lagged haze. Everything functions as a first-world country should, and Kiwis are generally incredibly friendly. You start to make job applications with the expectation, given the number of job vacancies advertised, of multiple interviews to follow.

In weeks 3-5, the rejection letters start rolling in. The typical feedback is "Thank you for your interest. However, as you do not hold a Work Visa, we will not be considering your application." Once you've received 10-20 of these, the initial excitement and anticipation quickly dissipates.

In week 6, people hit what my immigration advisor calls "the six week wall". He describes it thus: "where grown men, some of whom have fought in wars in Africa and beyond, are reduced to tears on the telephone with me and my staff. They inevitably ask the question: If everybody demands a Work Visa but I can only get the Work Visa with the job, how am I ever going to be successful and get up this visa mountain?"

A significant number of people give up and head home at this point.

For the most employable who persevere, usually a job offer will finally be tabled in weeks 8-10. For me, it was week 11, a mere 10 days before my Visitor Visa was due to expire. It's like skydiving, your main parachute not opening and your reserve chute opening only 500m before impact with the ground. Once that job offer is secured though, not only does that lead to the Work Visa being granted, but it crucially gives you the final points you need to be able to apply for that Resident Visa.

A year later, and I'm laughing that whole process off and wondering why the hell I was so stressed out through it all -- but while you're going through it, the enormity of what you're doing, the risks you've taken and the sheer fear of failure takes a massive toll on you. Most people coming here have no choice: if they want to live here, this is what they need to do.
 

Greg C

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Messages
245
Having been through this process, I would respectfully disagree with your premise that New Zealand is any easier than a lot of the "popular" destinations.

For the typical MyBroadband demographic (young, skilled professionals), and who are considering New Zealand as their new home, the end goal from an immigration perspective would be to obtain a Resident Visa, and most likely under the Skilled Migrant Category (unless they win the Lotto and can get a Resident Visa through the business investor categories, or find a Kiwi partner and can make use of the partnership categories). It's a points based system, where one earns points for age, qualifications, employability, etc., and 160 points gets your application drawn out of the pool and you are invited to apply for residence.

The thing is, that 160 point threshold is almost impossible to attain without having current skilled employment in NZ. It is possible, if the planets align and you have the right set of circumstances, but for the vast majority of people, they need to be employed in NZ before being able to apply. Anyone looking for proof of this need look no further than INZ's fortnightly selection statistics -- for the last selection on September 4th, 2019, 85% of people selected were already in NZ, working on a Work Visa. Getting a skilled job offer in NZ is therefore central the chances of securing residence.

And this is where things get really tough, because when it comes to getting a Work Visa, there is a disconnect between what employers want and what the government wants. For most categories of a Work Visa, one needs an offer of employment (getting a Work Visa as the partner of an existing Work Visa holder is the only significant exception), but very few employers will offer you employment if you don't already have a Work Visa. It's the classic chicken and egg scenario ("which came first?"). You also have almost no chance of getting that offer of employment if you're offshore -- employers are unlikely to take you seriously. It's not impossible -- I have a close friend who somehow obtained an offer of employment while offshore -- but exceptionally rare.

So, for most people, the process is: get a three month Visitor Visa, resign, come over here, try to find a company that will actually grant you an interview while on a Visitor Visa, somehow get that job offer before the Visitor Visa runs out (or your funds, given the depreciating value of the Rand), get your Work Visa so you can start earning Kiwi dollars and bring your family back home over, and then get that Resident Visa. It's a brutal and risky process where only the most employable can hope to succeed.

If you want to know just how brutal this is, these are the typical experiences that my immigration advisor shared with me, and what I can definitely relate to as I had the same experience myself:

During the first two weeks, excitement is high, even when viewed through the inevitable jet-lagged haze. Everything functions as a first-world country should, and Kiwis are generally incredibly friendly. You start to make job applications with the expectation, given the number of job vacancies advertised, of multiple interviews to follow.

In weeks 3-5, the rejection letters start rolling in. The typical feedback is "Thank you for your interest. However, as you do not hold a Work Visa, we will not be considering your application." Once you've received 10-20 of these, the initial excitement and anticipation quickly dissipates.

In week 6, people hit what my immigration advisor calls "the six week wall". He describes it thus: "where grown men, some of whom have fought in wars in Africa and beyond, are reduced to tears on the telephone with me and my staff. They inevitably ask the question: If everybody demands a Work Visa but I can only get the Work Visa with the job, how am I ever going to be successful and get up this visa mountain?"

A significant number of people give up and head home at this point.

For the most employable who persevere, usually a job offer will finally be tabled in weeks 8-10. For me, it was week 11, a mere 10 days before my Visitor Visa was due to expire. It's like skydiving, your main parachute not opening and your reserve chute opening only 500m before impact with the ground. Once that job offer is secured though, not only does that lead to the Work Visa being granted, but it crucially gives you the final points you need to be able to apply for that Resident Visa.

A year later, and I'm laughing that whole process off and wondering why the hell I was so stressed out through it all -- but while you're going through it, the enormity of what you're doing, the risks you've taken and the sheer fear of failure takes a massive toll on you. Most people coming here have no choice: if they want to live here, this is what they need to do.
This is probably one of the most honest answers and viewpoints I have come accross for some time

I am but only exploring the options of moving abroad with Canada as one of the options. Noting it is exactly the same issue as you described above, not withstanding the R100k it will take for myself and my wife to get accross unemployed, eating through money to survive whilst we attempt to apply for a job and hope. It is actually a reality that if you dont have a support structure and or money to bleed to make the dream happen... it is but a passing though to most
 

Japied

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
265
When (not if) the poop hits the fan in this country. Somewhere in Europe.
 

byronj

New Member
Joined
May 9, 2011
Messages
5
I am trying to leave with my young family. It is very difficult to get out but we could get into NZ which we are actively pursuing. Reasons for leaving:

1)Crime
2)Lack of social security(I am not wealthy enough to be comfortable in retirement here or have something go wrong medically)
3) lack of opportunity for my children
 

Ashcloud

Active Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2013
Messages
49
We are planning to leave because of the overwhelming feeling of threat towards white people specifically from the EFF and that other new lot who are even more extreme. We also are tired of living with the threat of violent crime. I lost my Dad to a hijacking attempt. Add to that the extreme levels of corruption in our Government and the fact that the tax payers have no say in how their money is spent or stolen and the fact that human rights only extend to black people in our courts and watchdog organisations... The list of reasons to leave goes on and on despite the fact that I love South Africa. Where to go is a real problem because unless you are wealthy, very well educated or have a foreign passport no one wants us. I believe we should be offered refugee status from all the countries where there is a majority white population from Argentina to Norway. We are a persecuted minority.
 

byronj

New Member
Joined
May 9, 2011
Messages
5
This is probably one of the most honest answers and viewpoints I have come accross for some time

I am but only exploring the options of moving abroad with Canada as one of the options. Noting it is exactly the same issue as you described above, not withstanding the R100k it will take for myself and my wife to get accross unemployed, eating through money to survive whilst we attempt to apply for a job and hope. It is actually a reality that if you dont have a support structure and or money to bleed to make the dream happen... it is but a passing though to most
I agree. I have friends who have been talking immigration for years but when you start talking points, money, agents etc you get blank stares. Most people simply cannot get out.
 
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