Aussies cant stand the heat..so they start cheating

[Morgoth]

Agree BUT we weren't playing that team now were we? Its like saying we didn't deserve to win the rugby World Cup since we didn't play France, Australia or New Zealand.

We played what was given to us. Same as what the Aussies have been doing for the past 10 years or so...playing what the rest of the world has been giving to them.

I agree, we capitalised on the situation and did a splendid job, but lets be honest here, Australia is a good team it has always been a dominant power in world cricket, since Steve Waugh and Ricky Ponting started captaining it became the best team for 3-4 world cups. It feels like I expected way more of a resistance from them , sure not the team of 2 years back but at least a competitive approach,

Anyways it is argumentative, but I would say SA and India have the opportunity to fight for the top dominant power in world cricket now if we keep preforming the way we do and build up for the next world cup then we might take that prize :> ,but who knows what new tricks the Aussies have up their sleeve when they come to play us at home in a few weeks time =)

 

[stefan9]

nah I am just being realistic, I love the fact that we won and player with a top nodge performance but, I have to admit though after all is said and done that the Australians didn't play the way they use to, take their team from 2 years back and we might have had a harder time =)

Neither did the the west indian team in 1994 play like the great west indian team. Does that take anything away from australians win vs them?? No, it doesn't things change and players move on. Our side is now great while they are average. Our boys deserve all the praise they are getting. They took their chance while aus weren't at there best.

 

[Alan]

Don't know if this has been mentioned but Ian Heally did the same thing a few years back IIRC

 

[rwenzori]

PS: rwenzori, I had the idea of selling the laser devices first, even if there's no proof. I have already decided on a trade name: Laser Ponting Devices*

____________________________
*As seen on TV

ROFL! Good one! May you make millions!

 

[Ou grote]

Don't know if this has been mentioned but Ian Heally did the same thing a few years back IIRC

Think Boucher also did it.

 

[Morgoth]

Neither did the the west indian team in 1994 play like the great west indian team. Does that take anything away from australians win vs them?? No, it doesn't things change and players move on. Our side is now great while they are average. Our boys deserve all the praise they are getting. They took their chance while aus weren't at there best.

Try defeating a team at its best rather then its worse seems more fitting for me,
We white washed the Aussies in 1970 just before we got banned from international cricket, and that team was seen as one of their best =)

 

[Flanders]

Doesn't matter what team the Auzzies had 2 years ago. They don't have that team today. Should we feel bad about that?

Regarding this cheating thing: It doesn't matter one bit whether the ball would have hit the stumps. If the gloves are in front, it's a no-ball and it's not out. Haddin could've reached down in front of the stumps to take a yorker (just a silly, exagerrated example). Would've hit without doubt but because he took the ball in front of the stumps, it doesn't count.

If a bowler sends in a pearler of a delivery and knocks middle out of the ground BUT his foot goes over the line....it's the same story. No ball. Not out.

I also don't get these Auzzie commentators. Last game of our series: SA bowler bowls, (was it Botha?) batsman hits back to bowler. Bowler gets a hand to it and runs Warner out because he was out of his crease. Why is this such an injustice that they must harp on about what a stupid rule it is for 20 minutes?! Unfortunate but them's the rules. Can happen to anyone...and does. What's to argue?

Haha, but having said that and since technicalities seem to be so integral to the game, I wonder if we may see a '91 Kapil Dev replay one of these days? You know, where he ran out our batsman (Kirsten?) on his bowling run up by knocking the bails off at the last minute because the non-striking batsman was out of his crease? From what I understand, it's simple etiquette not to do it but by the looks of it, etiquette may just be a thing of the past.

 

[Morgoth]

AFaik in the Kirsten case you are suppose to give him a warning If you are following game etiquette.

Anyways you cant blame the umpires for bad decisioning, your performance should convince the umpire to favor you in that particular game =)

 

[Ou grote]

AFaik in the Kirsten case you are suppose to give him a warning If you are following game etiquette.

Anyways you cant blame the umpires for bad decisioning, your performance should convince the umpire to favor you in that particular game =)

Kapil gave him a few warnings in that game.
He was stealing more than a meter at every time.

 

[Devill]

if he left that ball it would have been out , he was probably to eager to catch it and didn't realize his gloves are in front of the bails, sadly it shouldnt be out.

Anyways South-Africa didn't beat Australia

Australia lost the series their performance was way below par and now even NZL can beat them:>

Wrong: We made the make mistakes and we made them look poor and beatable. Thats what GOOD better teams do to good teams. Remember Foreman and Ali's fight? Foreman was a great boxer but ali made him look very run of the mill because he was better.

The ball wouldnt have hit... Check the replays... It goes just over the bails in my opinion.

+1

nah I am just being realistic, I love the fact that we won and player with a top nodge performance but, I have to admit though after all is said and done that the Australians didn't play the way they use to, take their team from 2 years back and we might have had a harder time =)

Mmmm funny then they should have played the west indie team from the late 1980's and the early 1990's to claim they are the best... Funny as they WI side wiped the Aussies in Aus in the odi's and tests in 1993 IIRC.

Try defeating a team at its best rather then its worse seems more fitting for me,
We white washed the Aussies in 1970 just before we got banned from international cricket, and that team was seen as one of their best =)

Was this white wash on SA soil? Also the current SA team is really good and it could move on to become "one of the best" ever IMO.

 

[Morgoth]

Wrong: We made the make mistakes and we made them look poor and beatable. Thats what GOOD better teams do to good teams. Remember Foreman and Ali's fight? Foreman was a great boxer but ali made him look very run of the mill because he was better.

Ali was 33 years old when he did that that is why he IS concidered argumentativly the 2nd best boxer and best heavy weight of all time, best being Suger ray Robinson,

Was this white wash on SA soil? Also the current SA team is really good and it could move on to become "one of the best" ever IMO.

yes that team was considered as one of our best ever. How could you not have heard about the "Gods forgotten cricketers?" :S)

Mmmm funny then they should have played the west indie team from the late 1980's and the early 1990's to claim they are the best... Funny as they WI side wiped the Aussies in Aus in the odi's and tests in 1993 IIRC.

it is the WI team of 1975-1983 captained by Clive LLoyd, and the later 1980's Indian and pakistan dominated world cricket apart from the ausies snatching the WC in 1898, your cricket history is a bit odd :>

but the point is, compared the WI team of now to 1980 is totally irrelevant , so many game changes and developments resulted in the WI being "stuck" in the past

but on the Aussies side and their current team that we just defeated it is a different story, this team did NOT comply with the standards of a even Ordinary Australian team, their performance was ridiculous, I have never seen Ponting or Hussy doing so badly, they are in chaos, and they were not well prepared , that is what I said they lost the series and we didn't win it =).

Also the current SA team is really good and it could move on to become "one of the best" ever IMO.

I agree BUT if should not get to big headed about this victory, remember what happen in the world cup? we entered as the no1 ranked team in the world - the results speak for themselves, we need to snap back to reality, focus on the T20 thingies like India is doing now, the next WC is in India and they are definably improving via T20 the IPL is making them sharper by the day and so is their new couch, we need to look out for them , but while we are at it now cut the Aussies out of the picture, they got a big wake up call of how "back" their new team is.

I hope this clears up some confusion :>

 

[killadoob]

Morgoth i do agree with on most things but i do not think for one second the aussies have been poor, i don't think they lost anything, we beat them and made them look poor and while this was not the strongest aussie team we still went into their backward and slapped them silly, you do not beat the aussies 4-1 regardless how poor they are. We are awesome at the moment and we made them look rather silly.

I do agree we need to relax and not get big headed because thats where we always screw up, get cocky and arrogant. So i do agree the SA team should know they did not beat the strongest aussie team to make sure their heads stay deflated.

I can say this though 2 years ago we did not have the team to beat the aussie, we now have a team that only one team can match in world cricket and thats the indians. SA and Indians i think are going to dominate cricket for the next 5 - 10 years i reckon. Provided Zuma does not turn us into the next zimbabwe.

 

[chiskop]

Kapil gave him a few warnings in that game.
He was stealing more than a meter at every time.

Dev had warned him, more than once AFAICR.

But Peter Kirsten at the non-striker's end and Jonty Rhodes at the striker's end - Kirsten needed a good head start.

 

[OzzieCapie]

I also don't get these Auzzie commentators. Last game of our series: SA bowler bowls, (was it Botha?) batsman hits back to bowler. Bowler gets a hand to it and runs Warner out because he was out of his crease. Why is this such an injustice that they must harp on about what a stupid rule it is for 20 minutes?! Unfortunate but them's the rules. Can happen to anyone...and does. What's to argue?

Sure they didn't say 'Jaw' and 'china', but it was pretty clear what they were saying.

It was actually Parnell bowling,... they said (even Nicholas in queen's english) that it was unfortunate (not "unfair") ,and it was pretty clear cut (the commentators accepted that).
What they did relevantly allude to is that with the "Mankad" being deemed unethical, the batsmen know the bowler is not going to run them out before bowling and therefore they start running early (everyone does it) and therefore they have themselves to blame and it happens more often (being run out in the way Warner was).

Pretty easy to understand...and yes, if the bowler can Mankad them (like Kapil did), then they won't start running early.
imo they should Mankad without warning. The non striker is equally unfair by stealing a few metres.


btw...on other issues, Vetorri did text Haddin to say "I didn't call you a cheat" and haddin texted him back...this is the 'apology' Ponting refers to...it is an apology of sorts...not sure why vetorri is sitting on fence about it. he said (and still does) "you knew it wasn't out, you should have called him back etc etc", but "hey you are not a cheat"

 

[chiskop]

btw...on other issues, Vetorri did text Haddin to say "I didn't call you a cheat" and haddin texted him back...this is the 'apology' Ponting refers to...it is an apology of sorts...not sure why vetorri is sitting on fence about it. he said (and still does) "you knew it wasn't out, you should have called him back etc etc", but (not) "hey you are not a cheat"

Ponting was the one who got all het up about "How dare they accuse us of cheating!?"

I read the article in SMH. It seems a bit of a stretch to call that an apology.

 

[OzzieCapie]

Ponting was the one who got all het up about "How dare they accuse us of cheating!?"

...before he had seen the footage. I agree Haddin shouldn't have tried to spin a moral high ground after that.

btw...just wondering why you misquote me by adding a 'not' in the sentence.

What I said is that Vetorri said haddin was cheating (and rightly so) but then texts him to say "sorry I did not call you a cheat"

Please quote me exactly as I posted it.

cheers

 

[Flanders]

Sure they didn't say 'Jaw' and 'china', but it was pretty clear what they were saying.

It was actually Parnell bowling,... they said (even Nicholas in queen's english) that it was unfortunate (not "unfair") ,and it was pretty clear cut (the commentators accepted that).
What they did relevantly allude to is that with the "Mankad" being deemed unethical, the batsmen know the bowler is not going to run them out before bowling and therefore they start running early (everyone does it) and therefore they have themselves to blame and it happens more often (being run out in the way Warner was).

I seem to recall a couple of "stupid rule" this and "can't believe it" thats. What made it stand out though, was the amount of time spent lamenting the issue. What made it stand out in the series over all however, was that it stood in total contrast to Warner's previous dismissals throughout the series, ie. where Channel 9 offered a moment of (absolute) silence upon each departure.

In all honesty I probably generalised about the Aus commentry. They're generally quite an entertaining bunch.

 

[killadoob]

I prefer the aussie commentary.

 

[chiskop]

btw...just wondering why you misquote me by adding a 'not' in the sentence.

Sorry - meant to explain that. I haven't seen that Vettori directly said Haddin had cheated. Vettori said he shouldn't have made so much noise, and that he should've called the batsman back - but I don't think he directly called Haddin a cheat. In that context, I thought you might've left out a "not".

 

[OzzieCapie]

I seem to recall a couple of "stupid rule" this and "can't believe it" thats. What made it stand out though, was the amount of time spent lamenting the issue.

Yes...and as I pointed out, my take anyway, was that they were talking about the 'stupid' gentleman's rule about the Mankad's...just go back to Mankad-ing and the batsmen won't steal a few metres and they won't be run out.
It was a side issue to the dismissal and they weren't questioning the actual dismissal.

And as for what vetorri said, I should perhaps have phrased that he "inferred" that Haddin cheated in his post match comments then texted that he did not 'say so'...well technically not, but we all know what he meant.

A further comment (imo) on this. At the time it happenned Haddin probably may not have known, he would then have seen it on replay. The sq leg ump should have seen it at time and called 'no ball'.
Haddin can't call a no ball. Could the umpires have reversed it on replay...yes, they can call for 3rd ump, not sure under that scenario though.
Could Haddin have acted as 3rd ump if the umpires (who also saw footage) did not act...no, he could not...but could have tried..Gilchrist probably would have.
Should haddin have admitted afterwards that it was not out..yes.

Lets move on..there are many other direct and indirect instances of alleged cheating...just ask the All Blacks of 1995