AWS CEO tells workers to quit if they don't want to come back to the office

My entire job is basically baby sitting because some people can't do what they're supposed to without someone breathing down your neck.

If the only means to track output and manage their effectiveness is by staring at them then that is the only way you would be able to manage them yes.
 
That's one thing.
But changing the rules is not cool, especially at the expense of the employee.

Rules change. The mantra doesn't. Sides MyBB Expits assure me there's a ton of other companies just waiting to employ everyone so they shouldn't have a problem finding another job.
 
Rules change. The mantra doesn't. Sides MyBB Expits assure me there's a ton of other companies just waiting to employ everyone so they shouldn't have a problem finding another job.
Well, the reality is there's HARDLY ANY EFFING WORK out there... it's FUKKING TOUGH!
 
There will always be people on either side of the remote vs in office fence, and depending on their work ethic some people do better working remote while others can only work in office under (the illusion of) supervision. In my opinion there is a [moderate] majority that can't work remote (or more specifically can't work without some level of supervision), after a few weeks/months they get tardy and shuffle their work schedule to maximise personal time and procrastinate on work especially if work is goal/results oriented and not time oriented.
 
They be tone deaf bra.
I am in the job market, since July.
Never in my life has it been this hard. Never

Frig dude, was unemployed for 18 months, it is a tough job market out there. I sent out hundreds, if not thousands, of CVs, with very little response. A `chance` encounter with an post on FB of all places, got me my current job.

Good luck with your search.
 
My take on the debate is that they type of work you do at the company you work for matters a lot. There is no one size fit all WFH is always better, or all in office is always better argument.

For companies that require a high degree of informal collaboration, being in-office is critical. In my team, we all interact with hundreds of colleagues monthly. Many of our best ideas come from overhearing someone discussing a problem, and someone chiming in with a smart solution, or informal conversations at lunch, resulting from "what are you up to?". Part of this is that we're not particularly compartmentalized (restricted in our job function) - if something interesting comes up, groups of people start self-organizing on it, and working on it. Every day, there is informal discussion on the current hot topics, or interesting results and exciting going ons within the team/firm. It's really hard to replicate this remotely - this was notably lacking during the Covid years, despite efforts like informal slack channels, easy meeting creations, permanently zoom sessions, in-office cameras, etc.

However, if your team is 10 people, and these are the only people you communicate with regularly, or have influence on your job, there's little reason to not keep in contact via zoom, slack and phone. If you work on a task by task basis, you probably just need to touch base with your manager regularly, and can code away by yourself.

I expect that companies like AWS have a mix of both types of work. It would probably be more optimal to have multiple policies for different types of work, but that is tricky in itself. Also, there are plenty of people who don't understand the impact of isolation in an active R&D environment, and will push to work from home, when they probably shouldn't.
 
Frig dude, was unemployed for 18 months, it is a tough job market out there. I sent out hundreds, if not thousands, of CVs, with very little response. A `chance` encounter with an post on FB of all places, got me my current job.

Good luck with your search.
Thank you.
I have applied even internationally. Those people at least get back to you within 3 days. But yes, I've now applied for the 70th time in the last 3 months.
 
I prefer in-office staff.

But everyone has a choice. Work for a company that mandates you to be in the office, or don't work for them. No one is forcing it.
 
For companies that require a high degree of informal collaboration, being in-office is critical. In my team, we all interact with hundreds of colleagues monthly. Many of our best ideas come from overhearing someone discussing a problem, and someone chiming in with a smart solution, or informal conversations at lunch, resulting from "what are you up to?". Part of this is that we're not particularly compartmentalized (restricted in our job function) - if something interesting comes up, groups of people start self-organizing on it, and working on it. Every day, there is informal discussion on the current hot topics, or interesting results and exciting going ons within the team/firm. It's really hard to replicate this remotely - this was notably lacking during the Covid years, despite efforts like informal slack channels, easy meeting creations, permanently zoom sessions, in-office cameras, etc.

Every workplace is different, I respect that- For me it has always been that I have been in smaller companies or rather, smaller teams. During the Chinese Pestilence we did very well. Without knowing the dynamic of your company and your team.. shoo, hard to comment further

However, if your team is 10 people, and these are the only people you communicate with regularly, or have influence on your job, there's little reason to not keep in contact via zoom, slack and phone. If you work on a task by task basis, you probably just need to touch base with your manager regularly, and can code away by yourself.

Yeah that worked fine for us during the Rona. We were small team, and we worked well effectively by just touching base every so often.

I expect that companies like AWS have a mix of both types of work. It would probably be more optimal to have multiple policies for different types of work, but that is tricky in itself. Also, there are plenty of people who don't understand the impact of isolation in an active R&D environment, and will push to work from home, when they probably shouldn't.

AWS is probably not a good example here. The thing with them, and the larger parent AMAZON is that they are widely known for less-than-optimal employee relations. They really don't care about employees that much.
 
Since people got a `hardon` for WFH, which wasn't even really a big thing before 2020. Since then, people have been will to give up being employed, if they can't work remotely.

I really don't understand it, prior to then, you commuted in traffic, picked up kids, whatever else, while working in an office. Now it seems to be an issue.
Covid gave more people the chance to try the WFH experiment. Employees found it convenient, whilst still doing the company's work, which is why it is now an issue.
 
Since people got a `hardon` for WFH, which wasn't even really a big thing before 2020. Since then, people have been will to give up being employed, if they can't work remotely.

I really don't understand it, prior to then, you commuted in traffic, picked up kids, whatever else, while working in an office. Now it seems to be an issue.
And WFH made us aware of how kak it is sitting in an open plan with loads of noise, distractions etc.
 
Covid gave more people the chance to try the WFH experiment. Employees found it convenient, whilst still doing the company's work, which is why it is now an issue.

But it was never meant to be a permanent arrangement, no matter how convenient the employee found it. We only started a hybrid process at the end of 2020, and while are still hybrid, it's adjusted to 3 days per week in office. I come in fulltime for operational reasons, but I don't mind. We have had the odd staff member who should never have WFH, but mostly it worked out well.

But management aren't inflexible, if you need to WFH on a day that you would've come into the office, you can do that within reason, barring operational requirements.

And WFH made us aware of how kak it is sitting in an open plan with loads of noise, distractions etc.

I figured that one out long before 2020, and it is still an issue now, but you manage it.
 
We have been doing productivity monitoring software for clients since around 2010. Mostly professional service companies, like accountants, financial services etc.

Overall WFH has increased productivity significantly. (More than any other measure)

The notable exceptions (which is where I think the argument comes from)
1. The employee did not have a suitable space at home to work from.
2. The employee was already prone to distraction, in which case it got worse.
3. Managers that were unable to make the transition to using technology for meetings and collaboration.

Some interesting contra indicators
1. Employees working for the overburdening managers showed the largest improvements in productivity.
2. The staff that did stay at the office, also saw a productivity improvement improvement. They mentioned they think it's because the office is quiet and a lot less cramped.

Overall, our assessment is WFH is a no brainer in most industries. Provided you deal with the bad managers and distractibility, it should work for most people.
 
I am 100% for WFH.

My problem is the people that can't handle it.

It is not the company's responsibility to get you power when you do not have power.
It is not the company's responsibility to get you internet when you do not have internet.

There is an office, ****ing go to it.
 
And WFH made us aware of how kak it is sitting in an open plan with loads of noise, distractions etc.
My troubles with open plan started some years before the 'rona actually.
In 2015 I found myself having to be in open plan after having worked in my own lab/space for years before that.
That's when you begin to notice what irritates you about other people afresh.

The whole let me WFH thing took swing in 2019, well for me and my team mates, because, as I mentioned, we had no space. What happened was another team had to share the space with us, and many of them were GenZ kids... and they cannot behave, so I told the CEO that either they go or I go, the CEO told me to go work from home, then my team followed and it's always been like that since.

I get a lot more work done from home- as proven. Why? Because my life is simpler due to:

* Not getting to work dead tired and late because of fukking traffic
* Not having to be in a state of anxiety constantly because of other employees who cannot behave themselves or have no manners (includes them making noises, chattering on their phones all the time, chewing gum, letting silent ones go and denying it was them when the smell is fukking rank, fights about the aircon temperature, and gossip about other employees)
* I can put on headphones, music and focus without the distractions of ringing telephones and uncouth employees as detailed above- I get treated like a deaf mute because I am coding away and when they make a noise or jabber then I turn up Pantera in my headphones even more until I can't hear them at all
* Office politics and games because some people have not got enough work to do clearly
* Not being micro-managed and having bosses standing around my desk looking at what I am doing because they think that's somehow going to make it happen faster
 
I am 100% for WFH.

My problem is the people that can't handle it.

It is not the company's responsibility to get you power when you do not have power.
It is not the company's responsibility to get you internet when you do not have internet.

There is an office, ****ing go to it.
It's funny my wife's company is going back to office but the office frequently has internet problems, power problems and water problems.

My previous position, the office often had water problems and a couple of times their internet went down.

I honestly think water-cooler talk and collaboration are overrated as reasons for in-office and neither have affected me. BUT what did negatively affect me was working with an in-office team where they had conversations and did not update me or inform me about what was discussed, leading to confusion and frustration.
 
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