AWS CEO tells workers to quit if they don't want to come back to the office

Bismuth said:
Since people got a `hardon` for WFH, which wasn't even really a big thing before 2020. Since then, people have been will to give up being employed, if they can't work remotely.

I really don't understand it, prior to then, you commuted in traffic, picked up kids, whatever else, while working in an office. Now it seems to be an issue.
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And how many people do you think enjoyed that?

Covid changed things and it also showed us that things can work differently. Our ''modern'' way of working is in response to the Industrial Revolution. The world has changed massively since then.

EDIT: I see no rational argument against a hybrid model where the type of work allows for it. I am in the office today for that buzzword everyone loves, ''collaboration''. But that collaboration is only for 1-hour and then that is it, I do not have to physically interact with another person again. I have been at my desk since 6:30 am (I arrive here early to miss traffic...) and everything I have done has been online. My clients don't even want to do in-person meetings. But I must be here to collaborate for an hour, then sit here until 4pm before I can enjoy what is peak-hour traffic on the N3.
 
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axsis said:
It's funny my wife's company is going back to office but the office frequently has internet problems, power problems and water problems.

My previous position, the office often had water problems and a couple of times their internet went down.

I honestly think water-cooler talk and collaboration are overrated as reasons for in-office and neither have affected me. BUT what did negatively affect me was working with an in-office team where they had conversations and did not update me or inform me about what was discussed, leading to confusion and frustration.
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My problem is that as an example I was in a call, SEV 1, fixing a client that is down. Then I get called from a team member.

3 missed calls in Teams and 2 missed calls on cellphone.
The issue? They need a topup cause they can't do their job at home.

Then use your Fibre....Don't have fibre.
Then use your Cell hot spot......Doesn't want to use personal data.

Then ****ing go to the office.
 
thestaggy said:
And how many people do you think enjoyed that?

Covid changed things and it also showed us that things can work differently. Our ''modern'' way of working is in response to the Industrial Revolution. The world has changed massively since then.
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I loled at the thought of WFH being an `Industrial Revolution`, can you imagine?
 
thestaggy said:
And how many people do you think enjoyed that?

Covid changed things and it also showed us that things can work differently. Our ''modern'' way of working is in response to the Industrial Revolution. The world has changed massively since then.
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The world has not changed much since then and now want to reset to pre Covid rules as it's clearly not working out. If anything they saw its a massive failure.

Most people need supervision.
 
Quicks said:
The world has not changed much since then and now want to reset to pre Covid rules as it's clearly not working out. If anything they saw its a massive failure.

Most people need supervision.
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Many of the companies that are now pushing for bums in seats surged during Covid. Notably Apple and Amazon. That tells you something. The pandemic pushed things online and remote. It is quite ironic that Amazon benefitted hugely from people not being allowed to leave their homes and rely on warehouse-to-door deliveries, but they want people back at their desks.

Locally, ABSA are one of our clients. They have been massively reducing their office footprint since the beginning of the pandemic. Our main contact at ABSA hasn't been back to the office since March 2020. The local banking sector in general has adapted to this new world where people don't want to or need to physically go to places to get things done. One of my friends is employed by Deloitte Johannesburg, but he lives in KZN, flying up to Joburg once in a while to ''collaborate''.

Of course it isn't a blanketed thing. Your logistics are likely better off sitting at the warehouse, but WFH/hybrid has been proven to work. People fought for the 8-hour workday 100-years ago and I'd imagine there were factory owners who complained that they couldn't use child labour and force 16-hour workshifts anymore. It is a very different world to then and Covid changed it even more.
 
Terence1983 said:
Just did a rough calculation. 93 Petrol in March 2020 when lockdown started was R15.52 per litre, to today is R20.73, over R6 per litre more. i travel roughly 1600km per month just to work and back, its a costs a lot more in travelling fees and time. To go back to the office i had to buy a new car as my wife wrote hers off in 2022 and she took over mine and i didnt bother replacing mine so thats another R2500 per month plus around R2500 for fuel per month that i have to pay extra now that im back at the office and im not earning even half that more from 2020 to now, increases were crappy during covid times and it doesnt seem it will be approving over the next few years. Not to mention the robots that are permanently out so traffic is way worse than before.

Thank goodness i bought a figo tdci so fuel costs are not too bad, i get roughly 21km per litre of diesel. If i was still driving a petrol car, the fuel price would be closer to the 4k mark in a petrol car, i was averaging around 13 km/l in my 1.6 chev aveo.
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Got to be carefull when motivating WFH like this.
Basically you were saving an ammount of money while temporarily WFH. Not the companies fault you grew into your savings.
Cant say you have to pay that full ammount extra , because you are not comparing to before WFH
All you are paying extra is the 25% extra in petrol/diesel

I can see why companies are asking for bums in seats. Before I changed jobs I was managing a small team. People were never allways available during working hours and I had to cover a lot because they went afk. Allways complained they were busy , but then I see facebook posts of how his new garden gym looks that he built during the day.
Yes a lot of people have the right work ethic to put in a solid 8hour day in WFH, but I can guarentee you they are in the minority
 
My_King said:
My problem is that as an example I was in a call, SEV 1, fixing a client that is down. Then I get called from a team member.

3 missed calls in Teams and 2 missed calls on cellphone.
The issue? They need a topup cause they can't do their job at home.

Then use your Fibre....Don't have fibre.
Then use your Cell hot spot......Doesn't want to use personal data.

Then ****ing go to the office.
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This is so true
 
Bismuth said:
But it was never meant to be a permanent arrangement, no matter how convenient the employee found it. We only started a hybrid process at the end of 2020, and while are still hybrid, it's adjusted to 3 days per week in office. I come in fulltime for operational reasons, but I don't mind. We have had the odd staff member who should never have WFH, but mostly it worked out well.

But management aren't inflexible, if you need to WFH on a day that you would've come into the office, you can do that within reason, barring operational requirements.



I figured that one out long before 2020, and it is still an issue now, but you manage it.
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I agree. I was responding to the question - why is WFH only an issue after 2020. Covid showed that things can be done differently, which is why WFH only became an issue after.
 
Major Boredom said:
Got to be carefull when motivating WFH like this.
Basically you were saving an ammount of money while temporarily WFH. Not the companies fault you grew into your savings.
Cant say you have to pay that full ammount extra , because you are not comparing to before WFH
All you are paying extra is the 25% extra in petrol/diesel

I can see why companies are asking for bums in seats. Before I changed jobs I was managing a small team. People were never allways available during working hours and I had to cover a lot because they went afk. Allways complained they were busy , but then I see facebook posts of how his new garden gym looks that he built during the day.
Yes a lot of people have the right work ethic to put in a solid 8hour day in WFH, but I can guarentee you they are in the minority
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Yea i get what you saying. In my case, my whole job function is to be available so i was available from 7-5 every day but yea other staff were slacking off unfortunately, but they should have addressed those staff individually as per the company policy which was not done, its the way it was handled which sucks and their reasoning was clearly a lie.
 
Terence1983 said:
Yea i get what you saying. In my case, my whole job function is to be available so i was available from 7-5 every day but yea other staff were slacking off unfortunately, but they should have addressed those staff individually as per the company policy which was not done, its the way it was handled which sucks and their reasoning was clearly a lie.
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If you think about it it makes sense what was done.
Do 10 HR actions against people taking up time and money and probably CCMA escalations or just tell the whole team go back to the office. Its hard to prove when people are WFH.

Unfortunately a few bad apples ruin things for everyone
 
Terence1983 said:
Been applying anywhere and everywhere and saw today ive been short listed for a position in another area of the business who is still doing Hybrid. In a presentation last week the COO even mentioned we have a Hybrid policy in place however some managers dont use it, we have complained but nothing gets done so i will be taking them up on the offer to leave because im not happy
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Ofcourse..... Your happiness comes before putting food on the table
 
Sapphiron said:
We have been doing productivity monitoring software for clients since around 2010. Mostly professional service companies, like accountants, financial services etc.

Overall WFH has increased productivity significantly. (More than any other measure)

The notable exceptions (which is where I think the argument comes from)
1. The employee did not have a suitable space at home to work from.
2. The employee was already prone to distraction, in which case it got worse.
3. Managers that were unable to make the transition to using technology for meetings and collaboration.

Some interesting contra indicators
1. Employees working for the overburdening managers showed the largest improvements in productivity.
2. The staff that did stay at the office, also saw a productivity improvement improvement. They mentioned they think it's because the office is quiet and a lot less cramped.

Overall, our assessment is WFH is a no brainer in most industries. Provided you deal with the bad managers and distractibility, it should work for most people.
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Thanks for adding some real measured data. In my experience a few simple questions show where the problems are.
Asking how management measure output is usually pretty eye opening. Its scary how many don't have proper fact based measures and just "use their gut".

That of course means seeing someone that looks like they are busy and putting in long hours is their measure of a good employee. The one coming in late leaving early is the bad employee. Output is of no relevance and often measured in perceived output.
 
I am sure in any organization you get slackers. That happens.
My problem is that it's always one side of the argument, the managers and bosses are seen as perfect and the employee is always the problem, that's bullshit.
I've worked for many bad managers in my time. Most managers are bad, not all, but most are.
 
I was out earlier, took my wife to the doctor's office.
So in comes a patient to reschedule his appointment.
I could hear the conversation and he told the receptionist that "I am not allowed to leave the office and they make me work late so when can we schedule an appointment for, on a Saturday?"

I just thought to myself... yep, the faux Kings are trying desperately to get their subjects back and lord over them. The bosses ran out of things to fap to and need their power trips back.
 
IMO the primary, unspoken, reason is the cost of operating the office buildings. An empty or partially populated office building is bad for profit.

And these corporates have built palaces...
 
PaulGherkin said:
Thank you.
I have applied even internationally. Those people at least get back to you within 3 days. But yes, I've now applied for the 70th time in the last 3 months.
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I can't wait to hear how you turned them down as well, because you know muricans. You are nothing if but predictable Sonic.
 
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