Backup batteries for load-shedding - you get what you pay for

[Not_original]

That could be

Probably didn't even know the power was off till it was too late

 

[The_Traveller]

I Answered you with a question, you didnt like the answer. Now wait.

More like dodging the question.

kind of bloke who puts the M badge on a 316 isn't it ?

 

[RedViking]

More like dodging the question.

kind of bloke who puts the M badge on a 316 isn't it ?

No I am not. You are just impatient.

 

[Koosvanwyk]

Two years ago I bought from Takealot an Ellies inverter and Royal 100Ah battery. It so happened that for six months no power outage took place. Then it hit us. The first outage the battery powered my TV for 2,5 hours. Same days later a mere 45 minutes. And then with each furher outage 20 minutes. I thought the Ellies unit could not keep up so I seperately charged the batter to a load rating of 12,3 volts. Still only 20 minutes. I contacted Takealot only to find the battery came with only 6 month warrant, so: so sad poor lad your dad. The battery supplier never responded to my queries….

I am not familiar with the Royal 100Ah battery, but if it is a deep cycle LA they will not last long if discharged quickly and then recharged quickly (which is typically what you see when used as a power source during load shedding).

They prefer a slow and steady discharge over 2/3 days to 50% DOD. They are ideal for camping to power a 12V fridge for a few days as an example.

When I still used my Synapse 3.0v+ (and before that the 600w Synapse) I preferred heavy duty high cycle truck batteries, not only were they cheaper compared to deep cycle they lasted significantly longer as a back up power sollution.

 

[Herr der Verboten]

SYNAPSE 600W PURE Sine Wave 12V DC

But "very loud fan". How loud is their loud? 50db+?

 

[The Darkness]

But "very loud fan". How loud is their loud? 50db+?

It's subjective, and easily mitigated often by moving the inverter to a different room/closet space and running cables from it. Even a 70dB reading is meaningless without knowing what the frequency curve is, and at what distance the reading was taken at.

 

[Gnome]

hu

Hubble also good

Hubble has had a number of problem threads on PowerForum that get deleted.

Basically they deny support on their product and say that they don't deal directly with public you need to go via your installer. If your installer claims you didn't "treat them right" they side with the installer and no warranty.

Buyer beware.

EDIT (more info): Before one thread got deleted the guy posted his correspondence (screenshots) with Hubble and he was perfectly reasonable in his asks and not rude whatsoever but they basically just sent him an email CC their entire company saying to ignore his emails because he isn't an installer and his installer said he is rude, so no warranty (didn't even ask his side of it or anything). After the thread went on PowerForum they eventually wrote affirming again they don't support you, they support the installer. Eventually they just deleted the thread (assuming either because PowerStore is a seller of Hubble or because they threatened legal action). There were also others complaining about similar bad treatment so for sure I wouldn't say they are "good".

 

[Mypro-D]

Hubble has had a number of problem threads on PowerForum that get deleted.

Basically they deny support on their product and say that they don't deal directly with public you need to go via your installer. If your installer claims you didn't "treat them right" they side with the installer and no warranty.

Buyer beware.

That's not good. I have two AM-2's and one had an issue. Was only getting around 3kWh out of it.
Called them and they said I must bring it in. Which I have done. So will await their response. Took it in yesterday.
So lets see what happens

 

[Gnome]

That's not good. I have two AM-2's and one had an issue. Was only getting around 3kWh out of it.
Called them and they said I must bring it in. Which I have done. So will await their response. Took it in yesterday.
So lets see what happens

Yeah I'm hoping they learned from that thread. Seriously it was disgusting. Even some of their hardcore supporters on the forum were shocked.
Does seem promising if they are at least helping you out.

 

[Gnome]

I am not familiar with the Royal 100Ah battery, but if it is a deep cycle LA they will not last long if discharged quickly and then recharged quickly (which is typically what you see when used as a power source during load shedding).

They prefer a slow and steady discharge over 2/3 days to 50% DOD. They are ideal for camping to power a 12V fridge for a few days as an example.

When I still used my Synapse 3.0v+ (and before that the 600w Synapse) I preferred heavy duty high cycle truck batteries, not only were they cheaper compared to deep cycle they lasted significantly longer as a back up power sollution.

Just FYI I ran Lead Acid from 2015 to about middle 2021. In that time I bought 3 different brands. Ellies, Ritar and some other more expensive brand, I forget now. None of them laster longer than the others. Roughly 2.5 years.

In my opinion, brand with Lead Acid means absolutely nothing and I see a lot of people on both YouTube and PowerForum have come to the same conclusion.

With this all said, Lead Acid must be recharged as quickly as possible 2/3 days of not being at 100% capacity will seriously compromise any Lead Acid not designed for partial state of charge (which they'll state in the specifications of the battery, those kinds of batteries are pretty expensive. Not to be conflated with deep cycle, partial state of charge is irrespective of deep cycle specification). And even those batteries are not designed to be at partial state for long.

I suspect that is why I always only got 2.5 years out of my batteries. I think maybe the inverter didn't charge the batteries enough (but I did configure the charger per battery specs).

Now that I'm on Lithium it is just so much easier, I don't have to constantly worry about how finicky the battery is about being fully charged all the time. Lead acid is like a high maintenance girlfriend. Oh the temperature isn't quite right, oh the voltage is a bit too low here for too long, etc.

Lithium has truly reached the point now, in terms of cost, where even I who thought of Lithium as a bit of a fad few years back couldn't deny that Lead Acid doesn't make ANY sense anymore (I was looking at basically the same price for Lead Acid as DIY Lithium, so the choice was obvious to me)

my 2c.

 

[Mypro-D]

Yeah I'm hoping they learned from that thread. Seriously it was disgusting. Even some of their hardcore supporters on the forum were shocked.
Does seem promising if they are at least helping you out.

They just called.

My inverter was showing 99% SOC when i took it there yesterday and on their BMS it was showing 73% according to their tech.
They said they have done a firmware update and balanced the cells again.

So... Lets see what happens. They called and said I could pick it up.

 

[RedViking]

In the end you need to get whatever you can afford, but realise you will need to replace it sooner. But yeah, definitely lethium above leadacid if you can afford it. Besides longer lasting, you can also use more of it. So far happy with my Hubble S100's, but too soon to say if it will last a decade or two.

 

[Gnome]

In the end you need to get whatever you can afford, but realise you will need to replace it sooner. But yeah, definitely lethium above leadacid if you can afford it. Besides longer lasting, you can also use more of it. So far happy with my Hubble S100's, but too soon to say if it will last a decade or two.

I think the problem is, people look at Ah rating and then say, I can get more with Lead Acid. But at the cheap end of the spectrum going for 50% DoD is just not feasible unless you want the batteries to die very quickly. So typically you'll aim for 30% DoD. So take your Ah and @ 30% and then look at the equivalent Lithium (@ 90% DoD) and you realise quickly you aren't paying less at all. Also because of Peukert's law the effective Wh capacity on Lead Acid is terrible. Lithium has a higher average voltage and nearly no voltage drop while under high use, so the total power you are actually getting from the battery is just so much better.

As for charging, there is a lot of misinformation in this thread. There isn't really anything very special about the BlueNova batteries. Chargers for Lithium batteries are much simpler than Lead Acid and generally it is pretty simple to get a Lithium battery working on Lead Acid charger.

 

[Thor]

If this is true then PowerForum will be avoided and I won't buy Hubble.

Hubble has had a number of problem threads on PowerForum that get deleted.

Basically they deny support on their product and say that they don't deal directly with public you need to go via your installer. If your installer claims you didn't "treat them right" they side with the installer and no warranty.

Buyer beware.

EDIT (more info): Before one thread got deleted the guy posted his correspondence (screenshots) with Hubble and he was perfectly reasonable in his asks and not rude whatsoever but they basically just sent him an email CC their entire company saying to ignore his emails because he isn't an installer and his installer said he is rude, so no warranty (didn't even ask his side of it or anything). After the thread went on PowerForum they eventually wrote affirming again they don't support you, they support the installer. Eventually they just deleted the thread (assuming either because PowerStore is a seller of Hubble or because they threatened legal action). There were also others complaining about similar bad treatment so for sure I wouldn't say they are "good".

 

[Neuk_]

Just FYI I ran Lead Acid from 2015 to about middle 2021. In that time I bought 3 different brands. Ellies, Ritar and some other more expensive brand, I forget now. None of them laster longer than the others. Roughly 2.5 years.

In my opinion, brand with Lead Acid means absolutely nothing and I see a lot of people on both YouTube and PowerForum have come to the same conclusion.

With this all said, Lead Acid must be recharged as quickly as possible 2/3 days of not being at 100% capacity will seriously compromise any Lead Acid not designed for partial state of charge (which they'll state in the specifications of the battery, those kinds of batteries are pretty expensive. Not to be conflated with deep cycle, partial state of charge is irrespective of deep cycle specification). And even those batteries are not designed to be at partial state for long.

I suspect that is why I always only got 2.5 years out of my batteries. I think maybe the inverter didn't charge the batteries enough (but I did configure the charger per battery specs).

Now that I'm on Lithium it is just so much easier, I don't have to constantly worry about how finicky the battery is about being fully charged all the time. Lead acid is like a high maintenance girlfriend. Oh the temperature isn't quite right, oh the voltage is a bit too low here for too long, etc.

Lithium has truly reached the point now, in terms of cost, where even I who thought of Lithium as a bit of a fad few years back couldn't deny that Lead Acid doesn't make ANY sense anymore (I was looking at basically the same price for Lead Acid as DIY Lithium, so the choice was obvious to me)

my 2c.

We have had a similar experience with our four LA's which are on their last legs and will be replaced with LFP soon.

 

[Mypro-D]

Right

Went to pick up the battery.
First off, they told me the SOC was 73% Yet the logs on my inverter were 99% ( Sunsynk )

They discharged and recharged over night to top balance the cells. Then did a load test. 2000 watts for 2.5 Hours, it passed.

Looks like the cells were out of balance and the inverter wasn't pushing enough juice through to activate the balancing as they were a little too far out of each other.

As far as support goes, I must give them a 10/10. I dropped it off yesterday, picked it up today.

I will try and connect it up tomorrow to monitor. I am expecting 4kWh from the battery from 100% SOC till around 20% SOC.

Will update here once I know.

 

[itareanlnotani]

PowerForum seemed a bit too pushy for the Hubble for me.

They are assembled here, vs international product. Me, I prefer international.
The Hubble also doesn't look designed, its been cobbled together.

If you look at other brands - even ones made here, they've been through a few iterations already.
eg Freedom Won - who are similarly priced to hubble, but have definitely had more design put in.

In the longer term, international is more likely to have warranty, as who knows what suppliers will be around in 10 years. That said, not overly concerned about warranty, in a worst case scenario, I can rebuild a pack with replacement cells if needed, or replace a BMS. I don't feel that Hubble is cheap enough compared to other brands to warrant that though.

I did get an amazing deal on Revov batteries - (another battery importer / assembler) a few years back - 10KW for 35k, I really should have bought more of those at the time.

I get wholesale price at Segen, so my pricing will beat powerforum pricing for stuff thats sourced at Segen.
Overall though, I typically stick to, or recommend battery brands for friends / colleagues that have been around a while - eg something listed on solarsolved.com.au

 

[RonSwanson]

Hubble has had a number of problem threads on PowerForum that get deleted.

Basically they deny support on their product and say that they don't deal directly with public you need to go via your installer. If your installer claims you didn't "treat them right" they side with the installer and no warranty.

Buyer beware.

EDIT (more info): Before one thread got deleted the guy posted his correspondence (screenshots) with Hubble and he was perfectly reasonable in his asks and not rude whatsoever but they basically just sent him an email CC their entire company saying to ignore his emails because he isn't an installer and his installer said he is rude, so no warranty (didn't even ask his side of it or anything). After the thread went on PowerForum they eventually wrote affirming again they don't support you, they support the installer. Eventually they just deleted the thread (assuming either because PowerStore is a seller of Hubble or because they threatened legal action). There were also others complaining about similar bad treatment so for sure I wouldn't say they are "good".

I saw that thread on Powerforum.The OP posted a REEEEEEEEE! about having issues with his Hubble battery and bitching about the fact that Hubble want to deal with the installer / wholesaler and not him (the end-user). According to him, his installer had "disappeared". Now regardless of whether that is a good policy or not, Hubble have their reasons for wanting to operate that way, and they made it clear upfront more than 1 year ago. They train and deal with installers, not end users, because of potential legal liability. From another post by the same OP, it is clear that he bought a 24V inverter that does not support comms with his Hubble AM4. Many forumites pointed this out to him, and also tried to assist him with alternatives in that post.

OP was clearly angry and complained about the tone of one specific Hubble sales support staff member, a lady who "shrieked" on the phone, and actually mentioned her name. Hubble was tagged by the Powerforum, but before they had an opportunity to respond, some of the forumites took advantage and basically doxed her via her LinkedIn profile, giving birth to a virtual lynch-mob. To me, this was a very good reason for the mods to delete the posts and eventually the thread, I don't care whether she had a shrieky voice or not.

Other forumites took a different kind of advantage, mentioning another dealer and batteries which, according to them, gave them "excellent service". Now anyone who has bothered to read Powerforum's Ts & Cs knows that this kind of promotion is prohibited, and most probably the 2nd reason why the thread was deleted.

Hubble then responded to the thread, on the very same day, and corrected the OP. Turns out that the OP actually had personal issues with his installer (no surprise here), and that he had not "disappeared" as the OP claimed, but rather that the OP was verbally abusive towards him, and therefore the installer was not prepared to assist him anymore. The installer had purchased the battery from a wholesaler and not from Hubble directly, but despite this, Hubble had gone out of their way to assist the OP, providing him with an alternative installer (as per his request) and telling him that he could bring the battery in, also including a free RIOT Cloudlink, which would enable them to support the battery. Hubble actually posted screenshots of the correspondence and ticket, which was awaiting a response from the OP (he clearly didn't get back to them, too busy with REEEEEEEE!) .

The OP then doxed his "disappeared" installer, so a 3rd reason for thread deletion.

Paradoxically, a few days later, the forumite who sang the praises of the other dealer and batteries and the "excellent service", made a two post REEEEEEEE! about his tribulations with his LBSA battery, and where he quotes the LBSA technical staff correspondence.

Moral of the story, to me in any case: When someone buys an inverter and lithium battery with no comms, that's just silly, so caveat emptor, pay schoolfees and move on. But this one is special, decides to get angry, and angry people have poor social skills, so it's issues with installer, issues with saleslady's shriekey voices, issues with the battery and now issues with the OEM -- do you see the pattern here? Always someone else's fault.

 

[RonSwanson]

PowerForum seemed a bit too pushy for the Hubble for me.

They are assembled here, vs international product. Me, I prefer international.
The Hubble also doesn't look designed, its been cobbled together.

If you look at other brands - even ones made here, they've been through a few iterations already.
eg Freedom Won - who are similarly priced to hubble, but have definitely had more design put in.

In the longer term, international is more likely to have warranty, as who knows what suppliers will be around in 10 years. That said, not overly concerned about warranty, in a worst case scenario, I can rebuild a pack with replacement cells if needed, or replace a BMS. I don't feel that Hubble is cheap enough compared to other brands to warrant that though.

I did get an amazing deal on Revov batteries - (another battery importer / assembler) a few years back - 10KW for 35k, I really should have bought more of those at the time.

I get wholesale price at Segen, so my pricing will beat powerforum pricing for stuff thats sourced at Segen.
Overall though, I typically stick to, or recommend battery brands for friends / colleagues that have been around a while - eg something listed on solarsolved.com.au

Powerforumstore sells a whole range of batteries, including Freedomwon, Pylontech, and Tesla, not only Hubble. I have also never found Steve to be pushy at all. He does make excellent recommendations, and with hindsight I have regretted not always following his advice in the past.

 

[netstrider]

Are Lithium batteries compatible with e.g. the Mecer or Ellies 2400VA / 1440W inverters?

Not Pylontech or Hubble. Perhaps BlueNova.