Bad news for engineers

VanZan

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
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567
No, Foreign Engineers with qualifications from accredited academic institutes (read article with reference to international accreditation) and suitable experience have been registered since the establishment of ECSA (and it's predecessors). However, there are lots of "academic institutes" where you can be qualified as an "engineer" (please see the '' around the questionable descriptions) but would not be able to register in SA or UK or USA or Japan or Europe etc because these institutes can not be accredited due to inferior standards.

This is only about one type of discrimination - competency & capability
 

dlk001

Executive Member
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Jul 29, 2005
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Does that mean Foreign Engineers are not allowed to get registration?

Most foreign people I know within Civil Engineering are members of ESCA and SAICE. In fact, a huge number of civil engineers in SA are of foreign origin.
 

dlk001

Executive Member
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I think all engineers must go through a similar training program as it will stop these talks about ECSA being racist and resistant to change. If you have a problem with such training program(s), you have no business being a registered engineer and it will also stop people calling themselves engineers while they never worked in the field just because they have the engineering qualification.

True. Its like registration of Rock Engineers in mining. Some old folk takes you underground for an examination with his peer and they both decide whether to make you a registered Rock Engineer or not.

I like the SAICE approach. Its more vigorous and contains many components (e.g mentorship, post-grad education/training, general examination, reports, and interview.)
 

dlk001

Executive Member
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Update

The Engineering Council of South Africa has welcomed the withdrawal of the Built Environment Professions Bill by the Public Works Minister, Geoff Doidge.

ECSA is in full agreement with the Minister’s contention that the Bill lack proper consultation and has technical and legal flaws that need to be reworked before it can be regarded as a workable solution tabled again in parliament.
 

LazyLion

King of de Jungle
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Messages
105,605
The link in the OP... Eish, she's broken.

"Database error."

That article is about six months old... look at the date in the post title?

This thread was just bumped to give an update.

Good thing the bill has been pulled though! common sense prevails for now.
 

LazyLion

King of de Jungle
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Mar 17, 2005
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105,605
Here's the original article...

Engineers warn minister
LLOYD GEDYE | JOHANNESBURG, SOUTH AFRICA - Sep 01 2008 06:00

South Africa's professional engineering councils, who were branded as racist gatekeepers in recent parliamentary public hearings, are warning the minister of public works that if bridges start to collapse she will be the one facing legal action.

Transformation is at the heart of a dispute between South Africa's professional engineering councils and the Department of Public Works over the Built Environment Bill.

The professional engineering bodies are suspicious of the broad powers that the Bill gives to Public Works Minister Thoko Didiza and believe that the department wants to do away with the peer review system, which is used to register engineers and could lead to South Africa losing international recognition for its professionals.

The Department of Public Works wants to streamline the registration process for the built environment professions as they feel that there are not enough previously disadvantaged individuals entering the system and there is a view that white professionals who run the industry councils are acting as gatekeepers.

The built environment professions include architecture, project and construction management, engineering, landscape architecture, property valuation and quantity surveying.

The atmosphere at the public hearings into the Built Environment Bill held two weeks ago by the parliamentary portfolio committee on public works, has been described as "unprofessional", "highly emotional" and a "witch hunt" by members of the built environment profession who attended the meetings.

At one point during question time, following a presentation by the South African Institute of Electrical Engineers (SAIEE), committee member Bhekiziziwe Radebe said the SAIEE presentation reflected the interests of a minority used to privilege, which they could not easily surrender.

Radebe said that this is why the gatekeeper function was so important, because there were huge profits in the pipeline for the engineering profession and that those who had become accustomed to benefiting from the old dispensation wouldn't want to give up a share of that.

"They are saying that there is gatekeeping taking place by the old guard and that this gatekeeping is making us raise all these objections to the Bill, which is just not true," said Stan Bridgens, business director of the SAIEE.

"We were told we were white racists and gatekeepers," said Rod Harker, who was representing the SAIEE at the hearings. "We see the possibility for the lowering of standards and we can't have incompetent people doing work."

"The engineering councils are there to protect the public not the profession," said Graham Pirie, CEO of the South African Institute for Consulting Engineers (SAICE). "They are there to protect users so that bridges don't collapse."

"Ultimately it looked like a witch hunt, and whatever we said was ridiculed," said Dawie Botha from the South African Institute of Civil Engineers. "I have never been in a situation where a chairperson can behave like this lady did."

Committee chairperson Thandi Tobius said that it is unfortunate if she has been perceived to be unprofessional, but insisted that she never insinuated in any way that some of the built environment professionals were acting as racist gatekeepers.

"There may have been insinuations made by other members, but not by me," said Tobius. "I might have missed one or two insinuations, but nothing is stopping them from objecting to me."

The engineering councils argue that the main shortfall in the supply of previously disadvantaged engineers is the school-leavers who achieve a high enough grade in mathematics to enter into engineering at a tertiary level, which was also raised by the Chamber of Mines at the hearings.

The SAIEE claims that only 8 000 matriculants per year had an adequate grade for mathematics at a matriculation level to enable them to enter university engineering studies and that this was the source of the backlog.

Trueman Goba, president of the Engineering Council of South Africa, told the hearings that the council had 29 000 registered engineers and in the last three years 56% of new registrations had been previously disadvantaged individuals.

"There is a shortage of previously disadvantaged engineers, but to fix it by putting incompetent people into the profession will just result in bridges falling down and people getting electrocuted," said Bridgens. "While we acknowledge that there are problems, we don't acknowledge that we need new legislation to fix them."

"The Bill is of great concern, it is fundamentally flawed and should be rewritten," said Bridgens. "The Bill doesn't even address the safety of the public, while the old Act did."

"To all of us, it is very clear that the department doesn't know what they are talking about," said Botha. "The minister could get sued if a bridge goes down."

Problems with the Bill
The engineers don't agree that the department of public works should take over the registration process of engineers, which used to be run by the Engineering Council of South Africa.

They fear that there will be a move to a more administrative process that will result in a tick-box system for registration and not the peer review system that is currently in place, where engineers are assessed by fellow professionals for competency.

If the peer review system is abandoned then it is feared that South Africa would lose its international accords and recognition abroad for its engineers. The engineers feel that the Bill gives too much power to the minister. For example, they say the Bill gives the minister power to exempt individuals from registration without having to provide a sound basis for the decision. They also claim the department of public works has not consulted sufficiently on this Bill.

The department of public works did not respond to an attempt by the Mail & Guardian for comment.

Source: Mail & Guardian Online
Web Address: http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-09-01-engineers-warn-minister
 

krycor

Honorary Master
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Aug 4, 2005
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The problem with little engineers coming thru is also that a LOT of engineers end up working as things other than engineers..
 

Ghazi

Banned
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Jan 11, 2009
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152
Just a little off topic.
I heard from my dentist today that the ANC intend regulating the private dental services, and he predicted that many of the few that have not yet emigrated, will do so, and some will develope other ways to bill which is more than likely going to cost the patient much more.
 

dlk001

Executive Member
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Jul 29, 2005
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The problem with little engineers coming thru is also that a LOT of engineers end up working as things other than engineers..

That has been true for a while because engineering salaries have not been attractive. However, lack of engineering skills has improved salaries a lot.
 
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