Ban on alcohol and cigarettes in South Africa

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Lupus

Lupus

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Dave said:
An interesting fact, even during the two world wars the UK didn't attempt to ban alcohol.

Prohibition in the US just increased prices and led to much higher crime levels before being repealed as a failure.
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Took almost 12 years to repeal the prohibition, in that time period the mobs had taken over, the government at the time even took to poisoning alcohol to get people to listen.
 
Temujin

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With respect to tobacco products, the DMA does not expressly empower the Minister with any specific powers relating to the regulation of the supply chain and ultimate sale of tobacco products. However, what the DMA does allow the Minister to do is to publish regulations or directions concerning “the regulation of the movement of persons and goods to, from or within the disaster-stricken or threatened area” and “the control and occupancy of premises in the disaster-stricken or threatened area”. Again, considering the nature of the pandemic, this could mean that transportation of tobacco products (and any other products) could be subject to regulation as well as compelling the closure of a premises where tobacco may be sold.

That being said, the DMA does not empower the Minister to prevent the actual sale of tobacco and any other goods. The only way that transactions may be regulated is in respect of transportation, and separately by preventing people from physically attending at a premises where tobacco is being sold. It is arguable then that where a retailer or wholesaler/distributer has been granted permission to trade, it must be granted permission to trade in its entire line of stock at least until it is depleted. Regulation 27 is aimed only at the sale of tobacco products and does not at all refer to the transportation or control of such products nor to access of premises where tobacco may be sold. This casts serious concerns over the blanket prohibition against the sale of tobacco products (and indeed against the sale of other products that an authorised retailer or wholesaler/distributer has in stock). It must always be remembered that as a state functionary, the Minister is only entitled to act within the limits of the empowering legislation and any acts outside of those parameters will be unlawful.
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Cliffe Dekker Hofmeyr - Is the ban on tobacco and liquor unlawful and irrational?

Is the continued ban on the sale of liquor and tobacco products really justifiable? And, if so, is there a less-restrictive means for government to achieve the same objective, while ensuring sectors in the entire value chain remain going concerns that provide secure jobs and contribute to much...
www.cliffedekkerhofmeyr.com
 
Gordon_R

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Sneeky said:
www.dailymaverick.co.za

MADAM & EVE: To Protect And To Serve Drinks

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DM-illegal-alcohol-2000px-793x1000.jpg
 
ToxicBunny

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Temujin said:

Cliffe Dekker Hofmeyr - Is the ban on tobacco and liquor unlawful and irrational?

Is the continued ban on the sale of liquor and tobacco products really justifiable? And, if so, is there a less-restrictive means for government to achieve the same objective, while ensuring sectors in the entire value chain remain going concerns that provide secure jobs and contribute to much...
www.cliffedekkerhofmeyr.com
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We need more lawyers to stand up and put this sort of thing out there... We also need our big corporates to be more litigious when it comes to the government. They need to stop negotiating and all that crap and just drag the government to court when they're doing stupid shyte.
 
Gordon_R

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Temujin said:

Cliffe Dekker Hofmeyr - Is the ban on tobacco and liquor unlawful and irrational?

Is the continued ban on the sale of liquor and tobacco products really justifiable? And, if so, is there a less-restrictive means for government to achieve the same objective, while ensuring sectors in the entire value chain remain going concerns that provide secure jobs and contribute to much...
www.cliffedekkerhofmeyr.com
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Pierre De Vos said the same thing last week:
The ban on tobacco sales appears to be more of a general public health issue than something directly related to flattening the curve of infections; and in the absence of proper reasons from the Minister, the decision also reeks of irrationality.

Relatedly, and on that score, South Africa is founded on the Rule of Law. This means that the government and its institutions (including the President and members of the national executive when they make high-level decisions) must, at all times, act in accordance with the “principle of legality”: they must act lawfully, in good faith, for a proper purpose and rationally – no arbitrary public conduct is permissible in a constitutional democracy. Where the decisions have failed to meet this standard, they have been set aside by the courts.
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Cleo_XIII

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TEXTILE GUY said:
Firstly, interesting post - I did read it, and I can tell you, you are not alone in how you feel.
I assume you are younger than me.
I wont give you advice, its not place to do so, but I will tell you how I dealt with the issue.

South Africa has chequered history.
Some of us went off to army, for no reason at all, now it seems.

Many of us, are second class citizens today. Reverse racism is real and working hard against us.
I am a victim of that, despite employing on talent over my career, I was denied employment on race.
The rules the government made, and they are getting worse.

The way I dealt with it was to find work off shore.
My lifes savings are determined by an economy that is being mismanaged - what I earn in a month now, is double what I earned back home, in ZAR terms, but worth half as much in my new country.
I own property in SA, I have kids in SA.

Today, I am in a happier place. Sure, I miss family and friends, but there is absolutely no way, I can compare my lifestyle to what it would have been had I chosen to remain in SA.
I can only compare my freedom, even during the pandemic, to like things were when I was much younger.
I think I have a chance to give my kids the choice - remain in Africa or go elsewhere. Their choice, but I can make the possibility exist for them

Darker days are probably looming, although I certainly hope not, and I wish you all the best for the future.
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Thank you.
Your words have been both heard as well as felt.

You started out by saying you weren't going to offer advice. But then proceeded to do just that.
This is not a criticism in any sense. In fact I deeply appreciate any advice or knowledge/wisdom from anyone regardless of age, race, religion etc. Wisdom through experience is priceless and it appears you are someone who shares that even when intentionally trying not to.
This is a valuable and increasingly rare trait. so I just wanted to acknowledge and thank you for that.

As for the, lets call it solution, that you have offered. It is with a heavy heart that I will say that I have been in the process of emigrating for a few months already. Unfortunately the entire (very expensive) process has been stalled and possibly will require starting all over. But it is something I am set on doing since I have the option.

It saddens me immensely because the main motivation for my wanting to leave is not because I am seeking opportunity and experience and such. That is secondary. The primary reason I am leaving is because I feel I am unwelcome in the place that I, as well as many generations of my family, was born.
It is such a "victim card" to play but many people do not realise that unless you are a part of the small percentage of the wealthy class, white privilege is not actually a real thing. Sure a few years ago the "privilege" also extended to the upper and precisely middle-class, but there are many of us who barely fit into that category either.
I've had my share of being screwed over by the policy's that were, on paper, intended to even out the level of equality among all people. Most notably of which being the fact I initially missed out on getting a tertiary education when i was awarded a scholarship and on a separate additional occasion, a bursary, that I worked my ass off for under extreme conditions only to have them both taken away because under new terms of the award i no longer qualified because I was white.

Anyway. To end off my essay of a response I would like to once again thank you for your words and thank al those that have responded positively to my previous rant.

While I truly wish that I was able to stay in the place I wholly consider my home and a part of who & what I am, it is just not realistic. And sadly this is the case for one too many South Africans these days.

And that fact is truly heartbreaking
 
Captain Beer

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I live near the branch line that carries malt from SAB Maltings in Caledon to various breweries around the country. I did a tour there a few years ago and learnt that 60% of SA's malted barley comes from this plant.
Just had the first traffic on the line since the beginning of lockdown early this afternoon. A possible good omen?
 
A

alanlesley

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feek im supporting zuma, by buying illegal cigarettes, i feel like ankin :(, "It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them, bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness. "
 
TEXTILE GUY

TEXTILE GUY

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Cleo_XIII said:
While I truly wish that I was able to stay in the place I wholly consider my home and a part of who & what I am, it is just not realistic. And sadly this is the case for one too many South Africans these days.

And that fact is truly heartbreaking
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Be safe .... holding thumbs for you.

T.
 
dualmeister

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SA wine producers 'fearful and frustrated', losing R300 million per week

South African wine producers are "fearful and frustrated" due to the ban on alcohol sales during lockdown, as well as the initial stop-and-go approach government had to the export of wine.

This is according to Nicolò Pudel, co-founder of Port2Port.wine, a South African online wine retailer carrying over 2 000 wines from 400 producers and 11 countries.

Pudel says he has observed this state of mind among many local wine producers in recent weeks, with some indicating that they may be forced to close shop indefinitely due to the impact of the lockdown.

Wine producers' industry body Vinpro said on Friday that the lack of income from domestic revenue streams – over R300 million per week – had undoubtedly already placed several businesses in dire straits, and would lead to thousands of job losses if the matter were not resolved urgently.

Source
 
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