Ban on alcohol and cigarettes in South Africa

[RaptorSA]

Some of the best comedy though , carlin is like a soft 4th on my list.

Any Carlin mention in 2020 deserves a response and at least a big-up for just knowing who he was.

I get why some people don't rate him high, it's very much a subjective personality thing and less about the "haha's", but as a "Carlin" person myself: Jesus Christ I miss that man.
There's only ever been two "celebrities" I can say whose opinion I deeply miss in this day and age, and it's Carlin and Christopher Hitchens.

Lame as it is, I sometimes try to imagine Hitchens commenting on the stuff that's been happening in the last few years since he died, I can't do it, not even remotely. Something truly special died with that man.

 

[RaptorSA]

I laugh at the cigarette industry trying to say cigarette sales is a net benefit, for tax income and stress relief for people in lockdown. The reason they are extra stressed, is you sold them an addictive substance and now they can't get hold of more. You can't say you are the solution to a problem you created.

Society would be better off if we did not have so many people addicted. Just because 400k people agree on something, it does not make their argument more or less valid. Just look at how people vote.

I wish all smokers best of luck in kicking the addiction. Even if unplanned, now is as good a time as any. Do not underestimate the help you can get from a doctor or pharmacy in helping, it's a lot more effective than it used to be.

We have a live one!
Tsja! Tsja!
Vat hom, MyBB. Vat hom!
Tsja!

 

[Jabulani22]

Any Carlin mention in 2020 deserves a response and at least a big-up for just knowing who he was.

I get why some people don't rate him high, it's very much a subjective personality thing and less about the "haha's", but as a "Carlin" person myself: Jesus Christ I miss that man.
There's only ever been two "celebrities" I can say whose opinion I deeply miss in this day and age, and it's Carlin and Christopher Hitchens.

Lame as it is, I sometimes try to imagine Hitchens commenting on the stuff that's been happening in the last few years since he died, I can't do it, not even remotely. Something truly special died with that man.

And he would do it with a drink in hand while answering and looking bored to death lol.

 

[Dan C]

I laugh at the cigarette industry trying to say cigarette sales is a net benefit, for tax income and stress relief for people in lockdown. The reason they are extra stressed, is you sold them an addictive substance and now they can't get hold of more. You can't say you are the solution to a problem you created.

Society would be better off if we did not have so many people addicted. Just because 400k people agree on something, it does not make their argument more or less valid. Just look at how people vote.

I wish all smokers best of luck in kicking the addiction. Even if unplanned, now is as good a time as any. Do not underestimate the help you can get from a doctor or pharmacy in helping, it's a lot more effective than it used to be.

Yes all smokers are very bad people . We lie, steal and rape . Just the other day I saw a smoker kick an innocent church going granny for no reason.

BTW if you don't smoke. Mind your own business.

 

[borro]

Society would be better off if we did not have so many people addicted. Just because 400k people agree on something, it does not make their argument more or less valid. Just look at how people vote.

Yeah, but then you have to include a whole range of substances. Legal ones, of course. Alchohol. Pain medication. Cannabis. etc etc You have to apply it to everything that could possibly harm a citizen by causing physical or psychological addiction.

128,000 Americans die each year as a result of taking medications as prescribed – or nearly five times the number of people killed by overdosing on prescription painkillers and heroin.

n 2018, an average of 41 people died each day from overdoses involving prescription opioids, totaling nearly 15,000 deaths.

Big Pharma would have you die in some horrible plane crash if you ever should dare to implement such a "virtuous" society. It's very sad.

 

[RaptorSA]

And he would do it with a drink in hand while answering and looking bored to death lol.

You know, this conversation and this thread could not have gone to a better place/person if you think about it....

Hitchens, the Hitch, one of the most incredible personalities (even to those who disliked him) in decades, he had an almost Chamberlainian masculinity and footprint about him, but armed with even better, modern knowledge wrapped in an unmatched language eloquency.

A guy with mountain-sized balls and an authoritarian distaste that felt like it shook the planet when he nailed a good point, and he did that all.the.time.

He'd be able to casually describe and predict this scorn for the authoritarian f**kup that we're experiencing right now to the point where you could taste it in your mouth, all while cleaning his ashtray. His retorts, quips and mannerisms in perfect synergy, as if he was designed to do this... People like him are and were the ultimate retort to the idea that taking care of oneself will automatically elevate you to a higher standard, when, actually, f**k no, a Hitchens without smoke and a drink is incomprehensible, he knew that, well, he was that... and even when the throat cancer finally hit him, he handled his physically agonizing walk into the ether with a form of mental pride and self-conscious sobriety that makes most people seem like pussies.

The brain that occupied that man's skull was drinking and smoking itself to death on screen in a way that almost made you feel like a lesser person for not murdering yourself in that same exact way. And it was amazing.

This is why I don't bother responding to the high horse crowd.

F0kken respek bra.

 

[Sapphiron]

"My smoke" have close to 0 effect on anyone (not smoking around people) , 'your car emissions ' are affecting me and everyone else. Just saying , if we going down that road

You can make an argument for car travel is a net benefit, even though electric/renewable would be far better.

Explain to me how smoking is a net benefit to society.

The long term medical costs not directly covered by the smoker is extensive. Its drives up the cost of medical aids and public healthcare for everyone. Even us non-smokers are paying extra, because otherwise smokers would not be able to afford medical aid, or get public healthcare.

SARS stated tobacco sales is bringing in R150m in taxes per month. According to a 2016 study, smoking related losses average R2.75 billion per month (R33b per year). In order for it to be a benefit, taxes in cigarettes would need to increase by ~1833%.

source: https://2019.essa.org.za/fullpaper/essa_3715.pdf

 

[RaptorSA]

Yes all smokers are very bad people . We lie, steal and rape . Just the other day I saw a smoker kick an innocent church going granny for no reason.

BTW if you don't smoke. Mind your own business.

I haven't raped in weeks you lying d**s.
You don't get to speak for me.

 

[Charl456]

Goventmet is to stupid our economy is fckd but let's stop selling things that have big tax on doesn't cause the virus to spread faster. Stupid fkn ppl ruling this country

 

[RaptorSA]

Yeah, but then you have to include a whole range of substances. Legal ones, of course. Alchohol. Pain medication. Cannabis. etc etc You have to apply it to everything that could possibly harm a citizen by causing physical or psychological addiction.


Big Pharma would have you die in some horrible plane crash if you ever should dare to implement such a "virtuous" society. It's very sad.

View attachment 832186

@Sapphiron. I'd let it go. There are things way worse than smoking, huffing pool acid or masturbating on a train-track.
On to of the list is @borro breaking her hilarious one-liners to concoct an actual multi-line response to someone.

I'm walkin' away.

 

[borro]

You know, this conversation and this thread could not have gone to a better place/person if you think about it....

Hitchens, the Hitch, one of the most awesome personalities (even to those who disliked him) in decades, he had an almost Chamberlainian masculinity and epicness about him, but armed with even better, modern knowledge, I'd argue.

A guy with mountain-sized balls and an authoritarian distaste that felt like it shook the planet when he nailed a good point, and he did that all the time. He'd be able to casually describe and predict this scorn for the authoritarian f**kup that we're experiencing right now to the point where you could taste it in your mouth, his retorts, quips and mannerisms in perfect synergy, as if he was designed to do this...

The brain that occupied that man's skull was drinking and smoking himself to death on screen in a way that almost made you feel like a lesser person for not murdering yourself in that same exact way. And it was amazing.

This is why I don't bother respoding to the high horse crowd.

F0kken respek bra.

View attachment 832188

He did not suffer fools.

 

[Sapphiron]

Yeah, but then you have to include a whole range of substances. Legal ones, of course. Alchohol. Pain medication. Cannabis. etc etc You have to apply it to everything that could possibly harm a citizen by causing physical or psychological addiction.

Agree, everything should have a net benefit calculation done. Alcohol is also widely abused, while it does have some non-damaging benefits on the other side of the scale.

Pain medication abuse similarly, though the net benefit of its availability on improved quality of life much more, than the downsides.

You have balance a scale at the end of the day. The issue is that tobacco products have almost nothing on the benefit side of the scale, as one could argue for many alcohol products.

Personal freedoms need to be balanced with society impact.

 

[TheChamp]

Goventmet is to stupid our economy is fckd but let's stop selling things that have big tax on doesn't cause the virus to spread faster. Stupid fkn ppl ruling this country

You don't write a post like this while calling someone stupid, it does nothing for your high IQ image.

 

[Captain Beer]

Which company does this Sapphiron ******* represent?

 

[borro]

Personal freedoms need to be balanced with society impact.

I disagree. It's too subjective for moi.

The issue is that tobacco products have almost nothing on the benefit side of the scale, as one could argue for many alcohol products.

I would not state that as definitive.

Scientists are perplexed by the low rate of coronavirus hospitalizations among smokers. Nicotine may hold the answer.

https://theweek.com/speedreads/911429/scientists-are-perplexed-by-low-rate-coronavirus-hospitalizations-among-smokers-nicotine-may-hold-answer

 

[Sapphiron]

@Sapphiron. I'd let it go. There are things way worse than smoking, huffing pool acid or masturbating on a train-track.
On to of the list is @borro breaking her hilarious one-liners to concoct an actual multi-line response to someone.

I'm walkin' away.

but, but, but, someone is wrong on the internet!

Seriously, I care about smoking, because of its impact on people I know, the indirect impact on myself and how it is exploiting people. R33 billion rand per year is no small matter. Not THE biggest, but certainly not insignificant.

 

[Napalm]

I don't mind the fact that ciggies and alcohol is banned. I know its easy to talk as i have no addiction to either of the two.

One has to think about this sober and rational. This virus is a killer, currently that must be top priority.
The virus is a respiratory one, it goes for lungs number1 and also few other organs.

I understand the governments point of view, i do understand the smokers view too. I've heard the counter-arguments.. like people can easily buy it when buying their grocery's or when they visit the chemist.

The main problem and i think this is what the government has been monitoring and they know our South-African folks...so they know the tricks and the habbit.

They know most folks will leave the safety of their house and go buy 3 or 4 loose cigarettes or for those who smoke a packet per day, will go out specifically to the store or walk right through the townships or go stand in how-ever long queue's to feed that smoking habbit. They will do that every single day or whenever the smokes run out. and they will think nothing of it. Endangering them-self and their family and probably the community.

vs Grocery's or Chemist visits, you buy what you need. You make your food at home and you might just topup your essentials once every 2weeks or every 8-9 days.

 

[Cray]

They know most folks will leave the safety of their house and go buy 3 or 4 loose cigarettes or for those who smoke a packet per day, will go out specifically to the store or walk right through the townships or go stand in how-ever long queue's to feed that smoking habbit. They will do that every single day or whenever the smokes run out. and they will think nothing of it. Endangering them-self and their family and probably the community.

End of the day, the booze and cigarette ban is not for the people who would frequent a forum like this. If everyone in this country was educated and middle class then there would be no need for either of these bans.

 

[Sapphiron]

I would actually say, on the balance of it, that I do not support the medium term ban on cigarettes. Due to the fact that it is unenforceable. I would like to see it banned, but only if it can be done effectively. Same with some alcohol.

Every day that passes, the illegal trade is becoming more effective and this government does not have enough competent resources to prevent it.

I believe that the way to reduce the damage, is to make it socially unacceptable. Point out the economic impact, the social impact, and the selfish attitudes the addictions enforces.

For example, you don't see people fornicating in a little group outside an office building (if you do, you should probably seek other employment or register as a sex worker)

 

[RaptorSA]

but, but, but, someone is wrong on the internet!

Seriously, I care about smoking, because of its impact on people I know, the indirect impact on myself and how it is exploiting people. R33 billion rand per year is no small matter. Not THE biggest, but certainly not insignificant.

Dammit, so close, but most of your comment was obscured by my vape cloud