Ban on alcohol and cigarettes in South Africa

[patrick123]

Political analysts also believe the implementation and reversal of certain regulations, such the regulation prohibiting tobacco sales, may have been used as part of a larger political agenda.

Two of the country's high-profile advocates, Nazeer Cassim SC and Erin-Dianne Richards, also expressed concern last week that the rise of the NCCC posed serious possible constitutional and democratic risks.

EXPLAINER | Tobacco, jogging and movement: How the government makes lockdown decisions

What is the National Coronavirus Command Council and how are decisions made on regulations governing the lockdown in South Africa? James de Villiers speaks to the experts.

www.news24.com

What do they mean possible?
It's already happening. People are being arrested after their Legally bought alcohol and cigarettes were confiscated.
Government is searching everyone handbags on roadblocks, arresting people who tried to buy food or medicine. Killing one for having beer on his property.

Yep, I starting to agree with this more and more strongly. My post on another thread this morning:

My ramblings while I sit in thought inhaling the precious nicotine from one of my last cANCer sticks.
This is all preparations for next year's elections under the guise of COVID19.
Food parcels by anyone but the ANC government stopped, preference given to the ANC wards as recipients.
Grant recipients, predominantly ANC voters, getting a financial boost where their situation has not really changed during these times.
Financial aid to the dominantly ANC voters and companies.
Only black-market cigarettes available of which everyone has suspicions where a percentage is going to. I would not be surprised if the electoral state funding for the political parties is dramatically reduced citing lack of funds as well.
As the lockdown levels drop and more is allowed, it will give the impression that the government is giving them more and more freedom, eradicating the last holds of apartheid, so vote for us!

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

One thing is for sure, this Mazzotti/NDZ conspiracy theory is the most complicated theory we've ever had to analyze, I know it's easy for you guys but my head is still spinning from the complexity.

I am happy to admit that it is just too higher grade for me.

How is it a conspiracy when there it literally a picture of Mazzotti with NDZ on the web and documented proof that he helped bankroll her campaign?

 

[gottagoon]

Lest we forget:

 

[Groen92]

You know they have no real cards to play when they go to the race card..... Fscking muppets.

The attacks aren't racist you numbnuts, the attacks are based on her being a backwards twat who is trying to force HER belief structure on everyone else.

That's one of the consequences of making mistakes - expect to be criticised. Why should NDZ be praised for causing harm to the economy? They're grasping at straws with that accusation.

 

[IndigoIdentity]

One thing is for sure, this Mazzotti/NDZ conspiracy theory is the most complicated theory we've ever had to analyze, I know it's easy for you guys but my head is still spinning from the complexity.

I am happy to admit that it is just too higher grade for me.

I know, it’s so utterly complicated with the thought of someone being politically funded by a person who is admittedly a tax evading skelem. How ever could it be possible that there is something nefarious going on here at all? Impossible I tell you, the thought of it is simply racist.

Financial crimes are seldom plain or simply understandable, it’s usually a necessity to make it very complex in order to disguise the facts around what is actually going on. This would generally require some thought to unravel and understand. I’ve never once indicated that what I have mentioned about this is an actual fact, simply that it’s odd or dubious in nature so that in my mind requires some of the spotlight too.

What I call a logical assumption you call head spinning complexity, let’s rather just agree that such thought processes are way over your head because this should leave you with ample time to focus on your issues regarding the general level of self respect of the population of SA.

 

[Solarion]

A guy we know was stopped at a roadblock and was carrying a pack of cigarettes in his pocket. 1 pack half empty. The police officer shat on him from a dizzy height for that one pack and threatened to arrest him for carrying a banned substance. Crazy times.

 

[Drifter]

One thing is for sure, this Mazzotti/NDZ conspiracy theory is the most complicated theory we've ever had to analyze, I know it's easy for you guys but my head is still spinning from the complexity.

I am happy to admit that it is just too higher grade for me.

As are most of the arguments discussions you tend to get involved in.

 

[Drifter]

A guy we know was stopped at a roadblock and was carrying a pack of cigarettes in his pocket. 1 pack half empty. The police officer shat on him from a dizzy height for that one pack and threatened to arrest him for carrying a banned substance. Crazy times.

You cant be serious? Bet you the cop smokes as well, and wanted to "confiscate the contraband".

 

[MiW]

Political analysts also believe the implementation and reversal of certain regulations, such the regulation prohibiting tobacco sales, may have been used as part of a larger political agenda.

Two of the country's high-profile advocates, Nazeer Cassim SC and Erin-Dianne Richards, also expressed concern last week that the rise of the NCCC posed serious possible constitutional and democratic risks.

EXPLAINER | Tobacco, jogging and movement: How the government makes lockdown decisions

What is the National Coronavirus Command Council and how are decisions made on regulations governing the lockdown in South Africa? James de Villiers speaks to the experts.

www.news24.com

What do they mean possible?
It's already happening. People are being arrested after their Legally bought alcohol and cigarettes were confiscated.
Government is searching everyone handbags on roadblocks, arresting people who tried to buy food or medicine. Killing one for having beer on his property.

Political analyst Ralph Mathekga said the national lockdown exposed the fault lines in the ANC's 2017 election, where Ramaphosa won the ANC presidency over Dlamini-Zuma.

"Why did the ANC Youth League decide to suddenly issue a statement in support of Dlamini-Zuma? Or [why did] the ANC Women's League issue a statement of support for Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma? Why weren't those statements directed to support the work of the National Coronavirus Command Council? It's because they are playing a political battle," Mathekga said.

He said the battle wasn't necessarily about the ANC presidency, but was a battle for resources.

"This is a battle over control of the state's resources. It's about the money and where it goes. This is a battle about which departments get the money and which people get the tenders."

 

[Groen92]

You cant be serious? Bet you the cop smokes as well, and wanted to "confiscate the contraband".

In a way, we should've expected this from the pigs.

 

[Solarion]

You cant be serious? Bet you the cop smokes as well, and wanted to "confiscate the contraband".

Didn't confiscate it but sure gave the guy a mouth full followed by lots of threats. It didn't even matter to the cop that it was legally bought before the lock down. He said it felt like he was back in school and got busted for smokes by the principle

 

[TheChamp]

How is it a conspiracy when there it literally a picture of Mazzotti with NDZ on the web and documented proof that he helped bankroll her campaign?

I thought it was allegations? I have not seen any documented proof that he bankrolled her campaign, do share the proof when you get time. I don't dispute that by the way, lest you accuse me of things.

Leaving that aside, if you want to tell me it's not a conspiracy you also have to show evidence that NDZ banned cigarettes to benefit her funder, that's how things work in law, your feelings are not proof. Business people fund politicians and political parties, corruption does not automatically follow because of the political funding, you have to prove the corruption part of it, many politicians and parties receive funding from business people, it does not automatically means corruption.

In short, even if it happens that Mazzotti was her funder, that in itself is not proof of anything untoward or illegal in this instance.

And for the millionth time, a picture is not proof of anything, at most it is enough to fuel suspicion, but that's it, no lawyer alright in the head will ever go to court and present a picture of the two as evidence that there is a corrupt relationship between the two.

 

[Veroland]

Political analyst Ralph Mathekga said the national lockdown exposed the fault lines in the ANC's 2017 election, where Ramaphosa won the ANC presidency over Dlamini-Zuma.

"Why did the ANC Youth League decide to suddenly issue a statement in support of Dlamini-Zuma? Or [why did] the ANC Women's League issue a statement of support for Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma? Why weren't those statements directed to support the work of the National Coronavirus Command Council? It's because they are playing a political battle," Mathekga said.

He said the battle wasn't necessarily about the ANC presidency, but was a battle for resources.

"This is a battle over control of the state's resources. It's about the money and where it goes. This is a battle about which departments get the money and which people get the tenders."

I think Ramaphosa in general is trying to do well, however, the ANC in general is a corrupt machine and that binds Ramaphosa's hands.

Imagine the sh*t in this country if NDZ had to be president?

 

[TheChamp]

As are most of the arguments discussions you tend to get involved in.

No, just the ones that involve complex conspiracy theories.

 

[MiW]

No, just the ones that involve complex conspiracy theories.

When there is smoke, there is fire....Sadly its all we have , as the government makes sure inquiries take years, and no one ever gets charged.

Your arguments could've been used by the apartheid defenders in the 80s . Prove it your self, when the justice and police is in the other court.

 

[Bewlen]

Saw this too, simply unreal. That was the biggest dodge I hav ever seen.

"So why is it racist?"

"Uhhhh, because ... no look we must all support this HEY LOOK AT THAT BUNNY!"

Unreal. Un. REAL.

 

[Solarion]

@thechamp While I'm not sure what is really going on I keep feeling like what we're seeing is this pandemic being used as the vehicle to transport and deliver someone else's agenda. That fact that the ANCWL attacked BAT for their BBBEE quotas is no coincidence.

You must remember that for the ANC, BBBEE is the Holy Grail. Literally any decision that make, every speech, every law and restriction is there to further that cause.

My own personal theory on the mattery? Use a lockdown to annihilate thousands of non BEE compliant businesses. And in this war for Economic Transformation, provide relief funding for BEE compliant businesses if they big/successful enough and simply let the smaller ones go bust as collateral damage in the war against WMC/Non BEE compliance.

I'm about 99% certain I've hit the nail on the head with that.

 

[Sinbad]

@thechamp While I'm not sure what is really going on I keep feeling like what we're seeing is this pandemic being used as the vehicle to transport and deliver someone else's agenda. That fact that the ANCWL attacked BAT for their BBBEE quotas is no coincidence.

You must remember that for the ANC, BBBEE is the Holy Grail. Literally any decision that make, every speech, every law and restriction is there to further that cause.

My own personal theory on the mattery? Use a lockdown to annihilate thousands of non BEE compliant businesses. Then either provide relief funding for BEE compliant businesses if they big/successful enough and simply let the smaller ones go bust as collateral damage in the war against WMC/Non BEE compliance and in the war FOR economic transformation.

BBBEE is not the holy grail at all.
BBBEE is a tool they use to keep voters voting for them, and to keep the trough filled.

The holy grail for them is soviet style hardcore communism.

 

[RaptorSA]

I thought it was allegations? I have not seen any documented proof that he bankrolled her campaign, do share the proof when you get time. I don't dispute that by the way, lest you accuse me of things.

Leaving that aside, if you want to tell me it's not a conspiracy you also have to show evidence that NDZ banned cigarettes to benefit her funder, that's how things work in law, your feelings are not proof. Business people fund politicians and political parties, corruption does not automatically follow because of the political funding, you have to prove the corruption part of it, many politicians and parties receive funding from business people, it does not automatically means corruption.

In short, even if it happens that Mazzotti was her funder, that in itself is not proof of anything untoward or illegal in this instance.

And for the millionth time, a picture is not proof of anything, at most it is enough to fuel suspicion, but that's it, no lawyer alright in the head will ever go to court and present a picture of the two as evidence that there is a corrupt relationship between the two.

Let's not kid ourselves, if this was some paleface from the DA or FF+ or whatever we'd need a mop to clean your gotcha jizz from this thread.

It's gotta be rof to be such a die-hard ANC shill these days, have to push that expectation of reasonable doubt to its absolute breaking point using muscles you didn't know you had.

Tell you what, when cops start sh**ing on regular folks for carrying smokes or drinks with them, I prefer to throw in my towel with the "conspiracy nuts"... you know why? Because it's not the journey that counts anymore it's the destination.

I can't speak for the PEP store marbles rattling around in your skull, but what I do know is that whatever noble Don Quixote quest you think you're on is being made to look silly by the giant 20-foot shark scraping past your kneecaps. So maybe, just maybe do us a favour in these trying times and do the following:

Drop whatever contrarian BS mission you're on and get with the program, or stop complaining about the head straps on your MyBB Dunce cap being too tight and smile for us, I'm low on smokes and comedic relief.

 

[IndigoIdentity]

I thought it was allegations? I have not seen any documented proof that he bankrolled her campaign, do share the proof when you get time.

For the love of NDZ, do you even read?

Try the presidents keepers, the tobacco wars or simply the numerous news articles which were published on this subject such as:

Gangster Republic: dirty cigarette money is funding NDZ’s bid for president

A self-confessed smuggler, fraudster and money launderer has emerged as a contributor to ANC presidential hopeful Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma's bid to replace her ex-husband, President Jacob Zuma.

www.timeslive.co.za

Alleged cigarette smuggler 'funding' NDZ campaign met with her more than once - report | The Citizen

The photos and new information could also possibly suggest a much closer relationship between Dlamini-Zuma and Mazzotti.

citizen.co.za

I swear, this ignorance of yours must be utter bliss...