Bandwidth bottleneck in South Africa

I can't wait for the day when broadband prices plummet similar to when the uncapped stuff was announced!

Soon™
 
So there is plenty of money to be made by building national connections? Then why are the companies only waking up now?
Why have coastal cities not cheaper and faster connections as they would not use inland routes, or very short ones only? The petrol price differs between coast and inland, why can't the broadband prices?

Something behind all the complaining just doesn't seem right. Is it a regulatory problem?
 
Wilcocks is being a disingenious. He charges an exponential higher charge to peer with his network in South Africa than what he charges in London. If Internet Solutions was serious about what they are preaching then they would do open peering at JINX, which they don't!
 
There are a number of misconceptions that are perpetuated in this article, but it certainly suits Derek that his customers don't really know what's going on.

The first question is what one means by "national bandwidth". Physically, the connectivity between cities in South Africa costs what it costs - roughly R2bn to build a fibre network. So far, there are only two of these - Telkom and Neotel/Infraco. There will be more one day when the Neotel/MTN/Vodacom network is completed, and perhaps, further into the future, when FibreCo gets there. (There is one national DFA route, but it's only about 500 km out of about 10,000 km needed to connect the country). At that point, these players will all be trying to sell bandwidth at a small margin above cost, just to stay in the game. In all likelihood, if there are four or more networks, at least one of them will not be financially viable - except as part of a larger services-based operator. This is the unfortunate reality check for South African Internet users - there simply aren't enough consumers to make it worthwhile to build national networks (FibreCo take note). It's all a lot easier in China or India. The good news for consumers is that most of the cost of national networks is covered by services for large businesses. Again, this would be easier in Europe or the US, but it's just about sustainable. The laws of supply and demand apply here just as anywhere else - prices would drop if there were more demand (in the economic sense, not the "I want cheaper bandwidth" sense.)

In the mean time, it's worth noting that the wholesale price of national links is more than 90% lower than it was three years ago, as a result of the competition between the existing two networks. The statements in this article make no sense in this context. Bandwidth prices in metros, where there are multiple fibre deployments, are also plummeting.

This is where the confusion starts. Local transit (sale of an Internet connection that gets you visibility of the whole of the Internet in South Africa, but not the rest of the world) is not "bandwidth" in the sense above. ISPs (notably IS) charge much more than the price of the underlying bandwidth for this, just as they charge much more for international transit than the cost of international bandwidth. In itself, this would be reasonable, and obviously how ISPs stay in business, provided that the incremental cost is fair. What we will see over the next few years is a normalisation of the South African Internet, as the distinction between local and international blurs, and prices for transit drop closer to what they are in major hubs. Prices will probably never be as low as they are in those hubs, but we are by no means unique. In Internet terms, other countries that are in the outer spiral arm of the Internet galaxy have similar frustrations, but it will get better over time.
 
Brilliant post, ads, especially this part:
In the mean time, it's worth noting that the wholesale price of national links is more than 90% lower than it was three years ago, as a result of the competition between the existing two networks. The statements in this article make no sense in this context.

In a nutshell, Mr Wilcocks, if you live in a glass house don't throw stones.
 
This all sounds great, but wait we still have to deal with Telkom. On a number of occasion when I have had a fault I have actually had to tell their technicians what they need to do to fix the problem and I am not an IT expert I actually run a guest house.
 
This is all great that these connections is coming to SA, but locally you have the Telkom that do not even bother installing/fixing lines
 
Like others have said, the real stumbling block is Telkom. Until price/speed issues are addressed, there is no point in complaining about the cost of national links. It is the last mile that is the real issue here.
 
Like others have said, the real stumbling block is Telkom. Until price/speed issues are addressed, there is no point in complaining about the cost of national links. It is the last mile that is the real issue here.

No, blaming Telkom is easy. The problem is the exhorbitant local peering charges and exhorbitant interconnrct charges levied by hosting providers. These entities charge as much for a 5m cable in their data centre as it costs to connect to Cape Town.
 
No, blaming Telkom is easy. The problem is the exhorbitant local peering charges and exhorbitant interconnrct charges levied by hosting providers. These entities charge as much for a 5m cable in their data centre as it costs to connect to Cape Town.
Thanks, r00igev@@r, for bringing it back to the topic. What this shows is the lack of insight into the breakdown of the total cost to provide service to the end-user. Whenever costs are mentioned most folks start screaming hellkom as if they are the sole cause of all our woes!
 
It would be nice if some service provider play open cards and tell the people look, to provide kaaskop the connectivity to write this message it costs us so much $ for pietie, $ for koosie and $ for jannie before kaaskop can start to type his message in the forum.
 
The bandwidth limitations of a fiber system are not due to the intrinsic properties of the fiber, but the limitations of the switching, multiplexing, and transmission equipment connected to the fiber. This opens the world up for a myriad of new service offerings when fiber makes it to the consumer's
door.
This produces many attractive alternatives to the broadband networks for the future. No longer will bandwidth be the constraining factor; the application or the computer will be the bottleneck. Because of the tremendous bandwidth available with fiberoptic cable and the technological improvements in SONET and DWDM, virtually unlimited bandwidth will be available.
Helkom uses "band-aid" approaches copper and coax services. 10 years behind
No, blaming Telkom is easy. The problem is the exhorbitant local peering charges and exhorbitant interconnrct charges levied by hosting providers. These entities charge as much for a 5m cable in their data centre as it costs to connect to Cape Town.
In reality, ADSL is a modem technology used to transmit speeds of between 1.5 Mbps and 6 Mbps under
old and dated technology. No network upgrades for 10yrs?

There are a number of misconceptions that are perpetuated in this article, but it certainly suits Derek that his customers don't really know what's going on.

The first question is what one means by "national bandwidth". Physically, the connectivity between cities in South Africa costs what it costs - roughly R2bn to build a fibre network. So far, there are only two of these - Telkom and Neotel/Infraco. There will be more one day when the Neotel/MTN/Vodacom network is completed, and perhaps, further into the future, when FibreCo gets there. (There is one national DFA route, but it's only about 500 km out of about 10,000 km needed to connect the country). At that point, these players will all be trying to sell bandwidth at a small margin above cost, just to stay in the game. In all likelihood, if there are four or more networks, at least one of them will not be financially viable - except as part of a larger services-based operator. This is the unfortunate reality check for South African Internet users - there simply aren't enough consumers to make it worthwhile to build national networks (FibreCo take note). It's all a lot easier in China or India. The good news for consumers is that most of the cost of national networks is covered by services for large businesses. Again, this would be easier in Europe or the US, but it's just about sustainable. The laws of supply and demand apply here just as anywhere else - prices would drop if there were more demand (in the economic sense, not the "I want cheaper bandwidth" sense.)

In the mean time, it's worth noting that the wholesale price of national links is more than 90% lower than it was three years ago, as a result of the competition between the existing two networks. The statements in this article make no sense in this context. Bandwidth prices in metros, where there are multiple fibre deployments, are also plummeting.

This is where the confusion starts. Local transit (sale of an Internet connection that gets you visibility of the whole of the Internet in South Africa, but not the rest of the world) is not "bandwidth" in the sense above. ISPs (notably IS) charge much more than the price of the underlying bandwidth for this, just as they charge much more for international transit than the cost of international bandwidth. In itself, this would be reasonable, and obviously how ISPs stay in business, provided that the incremental cost is fair. What we will see over the next few years is a normalisation of the South African Internet, as the distinction between local and international blurs, and prices for transit drop closer to what they are in major hubs. Prices will probably never be as low as they are in those hubs, but we are by no means unique. In Internet terms, other countries that are in the outer spiral arm of the Internet galaxy have similar frustrations, but it will get better over time.
Generally speaking, a network is a series of interconnection points. The telephone companies over the years have been developing the connections throughout the world so that a level of cost-effective services can be achieved and their return on investment (ROI) can be met. As a matter of due course, whenever a customer wants a particular form of service, they offer two answers:
It cannot be done technically.
The tariff will not allow us to do that!
 
Last edited:
There are a number of misconceptions that are perpetuated in this article, but it certainly suits Derek that his customers don't really know what's going on.

The first question is what one means by "national bandwidth". Physically, the connectivity between cities in South Africa costs what it costs - roughly R2bn to build a fibre network. So far, there are only two of these - Telkom and Neotel/Infraco. There will be more one day when the Neotel/MTN/Vodacom network is completed, and perhaps, further into the future, when FibreCo gets there. (There is one national DFA route, but it's only about 500 km out of about 10,000 km needed to connect the country). At that point, these players will all be trying to sell bandwidth at a small margin above cost, just to stay in the game. In all likelihood, if there are four or more networks, at least one of them will not be financially viable - except as part of a larger services-based operator. This is the unfortunate reality check for South African Internet users - there simply aren't enough consumers to make it worthwhile to build national networks (FibreCo take note). It's all a lot easier in China or India. The good news for consumers is that most of the cost of national networks is covered by services for large businesses. Again, this would be easier in Europe or the US, but it's just about sustainable. The laws of supply and demand apply here just as anywhere else - prices would drop if there were more demand (in the economic sense, not the "I want cheaper bandwidth" sense.)

In the mean time, it's worth noting that the wholesale price of national links is more than 90% lower than it was three years ago, as a result of the competition between the existing two networks. The statements in this article make no sense in this context. Bandwidth prices in metros, where there are multiple fibre deployments, are also plummeting.

This is where the confusion starts. Local transit (sale of an Internet connection that gets you visibility of the whole of the Internet in South Africa, but not the rest of the world) is not "bandwidth" in the sense above. ISPs (notably IS) charge much more than the price of the underlying bandwidth for this, just as they charge much more for international transit than the cost of international bandwidth. In itself, this would be reasonable, and obviously how ISPs stay in business, provided that the incremental cost is fair. What we will see over the next few years is a normalisation of the South African Internet, as the distinction between local and international blurs, and prices for transit drop closer to what they are in major hubs. Prices will probably never be as low as they are in those hubs, but we are by no means unique. In Internet terms, other countries that are in the outer spiral arm of the Internet galaxy have similar frustrations, but it will get better over time.

Good post.
 
It would be nice if some service provider play open cards and tell the people look, to provide kaaskop the connectivity to write this message it costs us so much $ for pietie, $ for koosie and $ for jannie before kaaskop can start to type his message in the forum.

Well, this forum is hosted at MTN. So MyBB pays the hosting provider and your ISP pays MTN. MTN scores twice.

The other costs are dependant whether you are draadloos or draadtrek.
 
Forget about national connections (ie Joburg <-> Cape Town), it costs 50% of an international full internet link just to get metro-ethernet-only connectivity halfway across Johannesburg.
 
bottom line- all of these companies with noble intentions to bring cheap broadband to SA are not charities- they are companies whose prime motive is to make as much money as possible.
the problem with our Telkom is that it has become accustomed to making easy money by being a momopoly in SA & charging us very high prices.

the intl companies are much more competitive as they are not monopolies but the same cant be said for Telkom- it has also been protected by DoC & ICASA for a long time.

nobody will do what kaaskop suggests- they dont want anyone to know exactly how much profit they are making- otherwise all consumers/customers will protest- that they are ripping us off.
they know it but prefer to play the "blame game"
"its not us, we are very competitive, its the other guys"
 
Last edited:
bottom line- all of these companies with noble intentions to bring cheap broadband to SA are not charities- they are companies whose prime motive is to make as much money as possible.
the problem with our Telkom is that it has become accustomed to making easy money by being a momopoly in SA & charging us very high prices.

the intl companies are much more competitive as they are not monopolies but the same cant be said for Telkom- it has also been protected by DoC & ICASA for a long time.

nobody will do what kaaskop suggests- they dont want anyone to know exactly how much profit they are making- otherwise all consumers/customers will protest- that they are ripping us off.
they know it but prefer to play the "blame game"
"its not us, we are very competitive, its the other guys"
The services in question here are not only provided by Telkom.
 
Wilcocks is being a disingenious. He charges an exponential higher charge to peer with his network in South Africa than what he charges in London. If Internet Solutions was serious about what they are preaching then they would do open peering at JINX, which they don't!

Jip. IS is just one of the capitalists in SA
 
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter