BBBEE 'has reinforced white supremacy' - Thuli Madonsela on why SA needs to relook at model

Vrotappel

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A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.
Charity starts at home. When we reward people for having children we are sowing the seeds of our future destruction. We should be giving grants to people that go for abortion.

Let's reward responsible choices, not poor choices.
 

DA-LION-619

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Charity starts at home. When we reward people for having children we are sowing the seeds of our future destruction. We should be giving grants to people that go for abortion.

Let's reward responsible choices, not poor choices.
You're not rewarding people, it's a school lunch...
 

Supervan II

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Implying that is the only reason for poor quality service? If BEE can be a reason for poor quality service, why can low salaries not be a reason?

Pay peanuts, get monkeys.
Because the same staff are well-paid - those peanuts are chocolate-coated, no less.

One example: nurses in state hospitals with at least 10- to 15 years' service. Another: A number of companies that are well-known to be paying above-average salaries.
 

DA-LION-619

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I work for a comapny that is government licensed company. To be able to keep our doors open, we need the license to operate. For that we need show that we only deal with BBBEE certified businesses. It's horrible and it's a **** show. My friend is the "Cost controller" here. He told me that they are actually forced to buy locally (the town we're in), but no local vendor is certified in our town (or care to certify), so they are forced to buy from Cape Town and the BBBEEE companies they can deal with never have stock of what they want to deal in and is heavily over priced in everything else. Heavily over priced.

In the end the guests is complaining and we turn into laughing stock, because of BBBEE.......Well, we as South Africans are probably used to be the laughing stock of the world already.
The local guys just say that they get enough business to survive, so why worry about getting certified.

My brother in law has his own cooling business, sine 1994. He tried to get certified a few times, to get contracts/tenders from the local municipality he is in. He later gave up. And he's still flourishing despite that.

So why certify? Is it only to get government contracts?
Yup.
 

HavocXphere

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Suggest even in passing that SA should aspire to such a system and you'll get a hundred pages of snivelling about socialism.
I aspire to be a millionaire one day in the future...but don't spend like one today as a result.

SA is effectively a giant experiment to see whether you can put the social spending cart before the taxbase horse.

Has little to do with does social welfare works in principle and everything to do with whether that back to front gamble pays off.

It could...healthy and educated people do make for good taxpayers. Just a question of whether that effect kicks in first or SA runs out of money first.

Gonna be dicey AF I reckon
 

MightyQuin

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@SlinkyMike predicted what you'd do that's why you're joke.
Sniveling about socialism....hahaha. You're even more stupid than Slinky.

People a 1 000 times more intelligent than both of you, did years of studies and wrote papers and articles on the matter...but the 2 of YOU are correct and they are wrong.

Who's the actual joke, hey?

Muppets like you that think posting a LoL is an actual and effective counter argument.
 

DA-LION-619

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Sniveling about socialism....hahaha. You're even more stupid than Slinky.

People a 1 000 times more intelligent than both of you, did years of studies and wrote papers and articles on the matter...but the 2 of YOU are correct and they are wrong.

Who's the actual joke, hey?

Muppets like you that think posting a LoL is an actual and effective counter argument.
Nobody made an argument for it.
Yet here you are sniveling at the mention of it
 

Spacerat

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Well, its like forcing ISPs to be black owned. By implication it means black people are not able to start an ISP. Instead of this ridiculous requirement, rather support black ISP startups that show entrepreneurial and technical aptitude.
 

Gyre

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Because the same staff are well-paid - those peanuts are chocolate-coated, no less.

One example: nurses in state hospitals with at least 10- to 15 years' service. Another: A number of companies that are well-known to be paying above-average salaries.

Hiring new nurses is also fine, but their attitude towards work is atrocious, the recent strikes come to mind where they tip litter onto the floor and prevent staff from assisting patients. It happens across all races too, I had the misfortune of meeting a terrible white female doctor on one of my stays in a government hospital, I suspect she was an intern.

On the other hand, there was an amazing black nurse at a private hospital my dad was at, and a patient in the same ward refused to be touched by her. If there was a bias towards the kind of staff people were allowed to pick, patients may dictate how a hospital is run.

I have met amazing nurses and doctors regardless of race and type of hospital.
 

Thugscub

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Thuli found her potato chip.
Why is it always the most stupid twats always have the loudest pie holes?
The votahs have zero brains and will believe anything a pie hole pukes out.
 

clickingbuttons

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Well, its like forcing ISPs to be black owned. By implication it means black people are not able to start an ISP. Instead of this ridiculous requirement, rather support black ISP startups that show entrepreneurial and technical aptitude.

Easier to force people to sell stakes of their successful businesses than it is to fund and try grow a brand new business
 

SlinkyMike

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BEE is not reparations. It is a system which attempts to to give the 90% overwhelming majority equal and fair employment opportunities over the 10% minority just in case the 10% minority overnight all had 45 million babies and increased their numbers to match the majority.
Wut?

Step one: Stop blaming white privilege or white supremacy or white anything. Once that is done we can move on to the next steps.
You are conflating racism with governmental corruption. These are two separate issues. We can list the pale skinned corrupt politicians from all over the world if you like but it's hardly necessary right?

Here is my point. If we're going to blame come whites for apartheid, we need to blame all blacks for the ANC and the corruption. Of course, no matter which way you look at it, it's unrealistic.

The repatriations have been done, more than once. The proceeds stolen. Looking at a rich whitey thinking more can be had, is equally looking at a rich blackie thinking that's all stolen. Let's drop that race card, it has lost it's place in society, been used and over-abused. If a guy can start a business, hire five people with families being fed - it's a win. If he grows to support 25 families, it's great. If he build an empire, even better if he can employ a thousand. In the process, some of the skills will be passed on to employees, who hopefully kickstart their own businesses. Govt should just back off. Colour should not dictate a white guy can't keep 5 black employees employed, a black guy can.: think the recent CovID tourism grants. Targeting one skin colour, equally (perhaps more) disadvantaged black people. Race has lost it's value as currency, except to further tear the country apart.
I see your point, I agree in principle but I disagree in part because you are also conflating apartheid and corruption. If we discuss reparations for apartheid then that should be discussed in the context of affirmative action, etc. Pulling Zuptas into it is dishonest as corruption is its own thing. You can't go: "I owe you 5 apples but you're a slimy schit so I don't owe you anything now." Doesn't work that way. I do agree that pandemic related support should not be subject to BBBEE - it is a clear case of 'this is not that' moreover: as you point out, it is the greater good that we should be aiming for.

The report comes from a wider investigation into how land claims, wildlife poaching etc played into corruption shielded behind race. Also abusing court process:
Yea so this is where it gets muddy. Corrupt politicians obviusly use race and apartheid to facilitate their kak. Tenderpreneurs spring to mind but your example is also a good one. Again: that isn't about apartheid for which a hefty debt is still due.

I appreciate your POV and thank you - this has been a far better exchange than what we have had in the past. :)

I aspire to be a millionaire one day in the future...but don't spend like one today as a result.

SA is effectively a giant experiment to see whether you can put the social spending cart before the taxbase horse.

Has little to do with does social welfare works in principle and everything to do with whether that back to front gamble pays off.

It could...healthy and educated people do make for good taxpayers. Just a question of whether that effect kicks in first or SA runs out of money first.

Gonna be dicey AF I reckon
Agree. Dunno how this will all play out. We have to get some kind of chokehold on corruption for any hope of a chance.

Thuli found her potato chip.
Why is it always the most stupid twats always have the loudest pie holes?
The votahs have zero brains and will believe anything a pie hole pukes out.
Professor Thulisile Madonsela to you, ya peanut.
 
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