BBBEE 'has reinforced white supremacy' - Thuli Madonsela on why SA needs to relook at model

Neuk_

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...when they are reparations for past injustice. Thought that was pretty clear. Actually, it is abundantly clear unless you are blinded by a victim complex.

Please just drop it if you are not able to think and discuss. You can lead a horse to water but kneeling there flicking water at its mouth is pointless, you know?

I am thinking, hence I am engaging you to discuss but you don't seem open to discussion unless it is in line with your viewpoint which makes you the horse that doesn't want to drink. I still feel you haven't adequately explained why discriminating against someone based on their race isn't racism, it is the very definition of racism. The reparations argument is a poor excuse, I won't claim to know what the solution is but I know for sure that creating injustice in the name of fixing past injustice, especially when it involves injustice against the innocent, is not the solution.
 

Lupus

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The tiny minority (which is actually about 8%) has received the greatest opportunities for decades and continues have an advantage due to this.

AA hasn't "always" been imposed on the majority. While it's true that SA's first AA policy was to protect white miners from competition from black miners, Malaysia is an example of current AA to the advantage of the majority.
How do they continue to have an advantage? The youngsters need to leave their countries to get a better future as the laws are excluding them from things. Also South Africa is a good example of the AA/BEE laws protecting the majority as well.
 

Nicodeamus

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You're wrong, we don't need equality we need equity.
Any modern society tries to stick a balance between equality and equity, but I would agree that race as a criteria is blatantly absurd especially how it is used in SA.

I my view on AA has always been that I would be much more in favour of it if SA does it the way that Israel or France does it, i.e. apply it based on class.
 

Kodi

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I suggest, that you would agree that BEE re-enforces white supremacy, elitism and division
Absolutely not. For your statement to be true, a supposition that white supremacy exists must be factual. Are you suggesting white people are inherently superior to black people? And BEE highlights that fact?

Let's not conflate supremacy and inequality. They wholly distinct ideologies.
 
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Nicodeamus

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I suggest, that you would agree that BEE re-enforces white supremacy, elitism and division

BEE certainly enforces racist stereotypes i.e. a black person only got his job or equity share because of his skin and let's face it for most of the ANC cadre's that is true.
 

cr@zydude

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How do they continue to have an advantage? The youngsters need to leave their countries to get a better future as the laws are excluding them from things. Also South Africa is a good example of the AA/BEE laws protecting the majority as well.

White children generally grow up in wealthier households and have access to better schooling and opportunities. Many schools are more likely to accept 'legacies' and having parents in the working environment helps get kids there too. Plus, as HR reps have told me, "whites are assumed to be competent, non-whites have to prove themselves".
 

Lupus

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White children generally grow up in wealthier households and have access to better schooling and opportunities. Many schools are more likely to accept 'legacies' and having parents in the working environment helps get kids there too. Plus, as HR reps have told me, "whites are assumed to be competent, non-whites have to prove themselves".
Don't know which HR departments you're speaking to, my company hasn't hired a white person since 2015.
 

Nicodeamus

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White children generally grow up in wealthier households and have access to better schooling and opportunities. Many schools are more likely to accept 'legacies' and having parents in the working environment helps get kids there too. Plus, as HR reps have told me, "whites are assumed to be competent, non-whites have to prove themselves".

You have obviously not been to a poor white neighbourhood yet. Stereotyping can get us detached from reality.
 

prOd

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White children generally grow up in wealthier households and have access to better schooling and opportunities.

Good thing then, that Universities will cater for this by ranking candidates from disadvantaged schools higher (obviously considered other factors as well). Which, by the way, is a good thing as it benefits you no matter your race.
 

cr@zydude

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You have obviously not been to a poor white neighbourhood yet. Stereotyping can get us detached from reality.

I've been to poor white neighbourhoods. The poorest black kids still generally grow up in worse circumstances than the poorest white kids.
 

Lupus

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I've been to poor white neighbourhoods. The poorest black kids still generally grow up in worse circumstances than the poorest white kids.
And that's thanks to the failings of the government.
 

cr@zydude

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Good thing then, that Universities will cater for this by ranking candidates from disadvantaged schools higher (obviously considered other factors as well). Which, by the way, is a good thing as it benefits you no matter your race.

Nelson Mandela University does give out extra application points based on your school's quintile, not sure how other universities handle it.
 

GoofySmurf

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We really need to get off this racism carousel. Reparations are not racist, they are reparations ffs just get it round your heads. Schit is fscking cringe.
It is racist actually, if you apply it based on racial criteria.

Cringe indeed ....

AA/BBBEEE are racist to the core regardless of a fruitcake justification.

racism

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
"a programme to combat racism"
 

Acid0

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This sounds like Eskom,
When the load shedding started they said we need to look at different energy sources to help out.

Once a lot of people started to get of the grid to help them selves and not rely on the eskom, they get accused that they generated to much power and again we have to pay for that too.

You created this we adapted and now we are the evil one again...... always the victim are we not.

Yes Apartheid might have been here 40 odd years so now the ANC has 13 years left to make it better than what it was, how much do you want to bet this will not happen but just the reverse it will get worse as they keep on stealing and cant help themselves.

Does not matter how you look at it but BEE is racists as it can only appoint a certain skin color and the rest should not even try to apply.

But yet when we start looking across the big dam we are being called cowards .....
 

prOd

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Nelson Mandela University does give out extra application points based on your school's quintile, not sure how other universities handle it.

Point being, there are better ways to address disadvantage than blanket laws against(or for) a certain race.
 

Nicodeamus

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Point being, there are better ways to address disadvantage than blanket laws against a certain race.

I think that any reasonable person gets this, but there are two groups that don't want us to see what is obviously common sense. Guilt Tripped whites and those members of the black elites that have no other skill than to use their skin as a marketing tactic.
 
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