BBBEE 'has reinforced white supremacy' - Thuli Madonsela on why SA needs to relook at model

AstroTurf

Lucky Shot
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
28,435
How about this theory (troll me if you hate it).

Instead of free housing being for 100% black people, it's for the poorest of the poor, look at that, suddenly there are integrated communities.

District 6 used to be multi cultural integrated, are all those people and their descendents being reintegrated or at least being offered the choice?

Instead of aa, what about affirmative education, how about educating and feeding the children of the poor instead of forcing private companies to have racial quotas, oh look, 10 to 15 years from now we have an educated younger population ready to take on the world of capitalism.

Instead of Rich black people getting richer in the name of BEE why not put in incentives that focus on helping private or state companies uplift their lower to middle income employees?

Stop focusing on race. The white population is declining, drastically, it costs this country and therefore all of us dearly because old money and new, old experience and new is either leaving or being forced out of the economy.

Focus on uplifting the poor by enabling the rest of the population to prosper.

Imagine what would happen if racism in any form was banned, from political populism to race based segregation, be it physical, political or economically.

Anyway, snide comments on my honest thoughts in 3,2,1...
 

SlinkyMike

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
8,430
Yeah, the crime thing I can understand but getting her knickers in a knot about a school meal is just nuts.

I hope she emigrated to a country with no form of social security whatsoever or she must be beside herself now.
Dude I can assure you that none of these geniuses understand the first thing about modern democratic socialism. They emigrate to countries with NHI, welfare, free education and then deadass turn around and trash talk socialism.

The say "socialist" like it's a swear word, like trump trained them to, without any consideration whatsoever for the socialist programmes that the planets most prosperous countries currently have in place.

They'll throw the CCP in your face then turn around and beam about the the UKs NHI or education system. "Everything just works you know, and it's all free!" How many times haven't you heard that from expats? Suggest even in passing that SA should aspire to such a system and you'll get a hundred pages of snivelling about socialism.

Numpties.
 

TheChamp

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
40,605
How about this theory (troll me if you hate it).

Instead of free housing being for 100% black people, it's for the poorest of the poor, look at that, suddenly there are integrated communities.

District 6 used to be multi cultural integrated, are all those people and their descendents being reintegrated or at least being offered the choice?

Instead of aa, what about affirmative education, how about educating and feeding the children of the poor instead of forcing private companies to have racial quotas, oh look, 10 to 15 years from now we have an educated younger population ready to take on the world of capitalism.

Instead of Rich black people getting richer in the name of BEE why not put in incentives that focus on helping private or state companies uplift their lower to middle income employees?

Stop focusing on race. The white population is declining, drastically, it costs this country and therefore all of us dearly because old money and new, old experience and new is either leaving or being forced out of the economy.

Focus on uplifting the poor by enabling the rest of the population to prosper.

Imagine what would happen if racism in any form was banned, from political populism to race based segregation, be it physical, political or economically.

Anyway, snide comments on my honest thoughts in 3,2,1...
Only problem is that it is not 100% for black people.


 

AstroTurf

Lucky Shot
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
28,435
Only problem is that it is not 100% for black people.

Yes in theory but not happening and not integrated
 

Sollie

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
12,071
Nice quip. I raise you: deficit thinking.
Exactly.

Now your turn to think.

I owe you X, let's call it repatriations. We agreed on X through some arbitration process. You appoint your dad, let's call him the ANC, to collect on the debt. But instead of giving it to you, he decides to go whoring, but needs a flashy Merc to do that. So you still have not received your X, while your dad due to his efforts, gives you two needy siblings. You scream and shout about your X. Your dad can't let you lose faith in him, so forces me to pay X again. But this time also for your two siblings. Rinse and repeat. Somewhere along the line there is abuse, you accuse me of the abuse. You're gatvol, I'm gatvol. Who is really the abuser?

 

SlinkyMike

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
8,430
Exactly.

Now your turn to think.

I owe you X, let's call it repatriations. We agreed on X through some arbitration process. You appoint your dad, let's call him the ANC, to collect on the debt. But instead of giving it to you, he decides to go whoring, but needs a flashy Merc to do that. So you still have not received your X, while your dad due to his efforts, gives you two needy siblings. You scream and shout about your X. Your dad can't let you lose faith in him, so forces me to pay X again. But this time also for your two siblings. Rinse and repeat. Somewhere along the line there is abuse, you accuse me of the abuse. You're gatvol, I'm gatvol. Who is really the abuser?

You will never see me defending the utterly disgraceful performance fo the ANC since 1994. Ever.

Nipping corruption in the bud would be the turning point for our country - I have no bright ideas on how to achieve that though.

I took a cursory glance at the PDF but I am not sure what I am looking at, maybe a small description please?
 

AstroTurf

Lucky Shot
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
28,435
My dear Internet acquaintance, I have read, paid attention to and agreed with many of the things you have to say here, I have disagreed as well but that is human. I'm just mentioning this so that you understand that I'm not trying to win a fight or have a hard stand on any particular topic. I only respond when I feel it's important to the bigger picture and not simply for the sake of reacting as opposed to thought out responses.

Anyway, I respect your view and I'm not trying to win the internet.

That said, can you show me any real cases of integration in rdp, or any rdp locations with a 3% or more white population (should be 5 to 9% more realistically as per capita).

Above and beyond that, has integration truly been a part of the current political parties goals or more importantly something they have actively been working toward or done something about, ever?

Anyway, just my view. We won't get anywhere if we don't work together.
 

Gyre

Expert Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
2,500
The quality of service nowadays, or rather the total lack thereof, is testament to the lowering of standards just to get a higher scorecard.

Implying that is the only reason for poor quality service? If BEE can be a reason for poor quality service, why can low salaries not be a reason?

Pay peanuts, get monkeys.
 

MightyQuin

Not amused...
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
24,642
Dude I can assure you that none of these geniuses understand the first thing about modern democratic socialism. They emigrate to countries with NHI, welfare, free education and then deadass turn around and trash talk socialism.

The say "socialist" like it's a swear word, like trump trained them to, without any consideration whatsoever for the socialist programmes that the planets most prosperous countries currently have in place.

They'll throw the CCP in your face then turn around and beam about the the UKs NHI or education system. "Everything just works you know, and it's all free!" How many times haven't you heard that from expats? Suggest even in passing that SA should aspire to such a system and you'll get a hundred pages of snivelling about socialism.

Numpties.
Some "errors" in this post...not sure what the CCP of the NHI is ? But I can take a guess at what you meant.

The UK's "education system" is not free.
The NHS is teetering on bankruptcy according to some reports.

The only way that socialist democracy can work and be sustainable, is if most of the population contributes fairly and equally. The money to support these programs has to come from somewhere. This cannot work in a country where more than 32% of people are jobless.

South Africa also does not have the social cohesion or the trust in government, required for an effective Socialist Democracy.

Contrary to the prevailing narrative, the success of Nordic countries like Sweden — as measured by relatively high living standards accompanied by low poverty, with government-funded education through university, universal health coverage, generous parental-leave policies and long life spans — precedes the contemporary welfare state.

In fact, when we examine Nordic politics, economy and history as exemplified by Sweden, we find that the Northern European success story was not achieved thanks to a welfare model funded by high taxes, but perhaps despite it.

Research has suggested that the Northern European success story has its roots in cultural rather than economic factors. The Scandinavian countries of Sweden, Norway and Denmark, which have a combined population roughly comparable to the greater New York City area, historically developed remarkably high levels of social trust, a robust work ethic and considerable social cohesion.
 
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supersunbird

Honorary Master
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
56,792
You will never see me defending the utterly disgraceful performance fo the ANC since 1994. Ever.

Nipping corruption in the bud would be the turning point for our country - I have no bright ideas on how to achieve that though.

I took a cursory glance at the PDF but I am not sure what I am looking at, maybe a small description please?

Step one: Stop blaming white privilege or white supremacy or white anything. Once that is done we can move on to the next steps.
 

SoldierMan

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
7,695
Dude I can assure you that none of these geniuses understand the first thing about modern democratic socialism. They emigrate to countries with NHI, welfare, free education and then deadass turn around and trash talk socialism.

The say "socialist" like it's a swear word, like trump trained them to, without any consideration whatsoever for the socialist programmes that the planets most prosperous countries currently have in place.

They'll throw the CCP in your face then turn around and beam about the the UKs NHI or education system. "Everything just works you know, and it's all free!" How many times haven't you heard that from expats? Suggest even in passing that SA should aspire to such a system and you'll get a hundred pages of snivelling about socialism.

Numpties.

You honestly believe the government will successfully implement NHI??? You're living in a dream world, it will be a disaster. Billions of Rands will be wasted and stolen.
 

Sollie

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
12,071
You will never see me defending the utterly disgraceful performance fo the ANC since 1994. Ever.

Nipping corruption in the bud would be the turning point for our country - I have no bright ideas on how to achieve that though.

I took a cursory glance at the PDF but I am not sure what I am looking at, maybe a small description please?
Here is my point. If we're going to blame come whites for apartheid, we need to blame all blacks for the ANC and the corruption. Of course, no matter which way you look at it, it's unrealistic.

The repatriations have been done, more than once. The proceeds stolen. Looking at a rich whitey thinking more can be had, is equally looking at a rich blackie thinking that's all stolen. Let's drop that race card, it has lost it's place in society, been used and over-abused. If a guy can start a business, hire five people with families being fed - it's a win. If he grows to support 25 families, it's great. If he build an empire, even better if he can employ a thousand. In the process, some of the skills will be passed on to employees, who hopefully kickstart their own businesses. Govt should just back off. Colour should not dictate a white guy can't keep 5 black employees employed, a black guy can.: think the recent CovID tourism grants. Targeting one skin colour, equally (perhaps more) disadvantaged black people. Race has lost it's value as currency, except to further tear the country apart.

The report comes from a wider investigation into how land claims, wildlife poaching etc played into corruption shielded behind race. Also abusing court process:
 
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