Best place to invest right now??

Bandicoot

Active Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
65
I would like some assistance about investing money.

I have about R300 000 - R500 00 to invest and would like to have virtually instant access - or a few days at the most.

Financial fundies- where would you stash your cash ??? Money market ? Shares ?
:confused:
 

Bandicoot

Active Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
65
Bitcoins is way to "up in the air" for me. I like to walk into the building that keeps my money thanks.....
 

Bizkit87

Executive Member
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Apr 3, 2009
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5,254
Bitcoins is way to "up in the air" for me. I like to walk into the building that keeps my money thanks.....

I know it is a difficult concept to get your head around, and i've been following it now for the last 2 years.

But see it as 'high' risk investment [so only 10 - 20 %] and "take the risk". The best way I can try and explain bitcoins, is to say that it will to the same to money, than email did to postal services.

It WILL be the currency of the future.
 

MrR

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
2,462
I know it is a difficult concept to get your head around, and i've been following it now for the last 2 years.

But see it as 'high' risk investment [so only 10 - 20 %] and "take the risk". The best way I can try and explain bitcoins, is to say that it will to the same to money, than email did to postal services.

It WILL be the currency of the future.

I agree, however, it is pretty high risk/volatile. You gotta keep a close eye on it, multiple times a day.
 

SpoonTech

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Messages
360
I would like some assistance about investing money.

I have about R300 000 - R500 00 to invest and would like to have virtually instant access - or a few days at the most.

Financial fundies- where would you stash your cash ??? Money market ? Shares ?
:confused:

Money Markets and Instant Access to Cash
For what reason do you need instant access to the cash?. If you need instant access, you will cut down your returns considerably. That said, a money market account will be your best bet if you would like 24h access to your money. I do not really consider a money market account as an investment. An investment to me is somewhere you put your money and leave it for more than two years with the hope of medium to high gains. A money market account is where most Personal Financial Advisors suggest placing your 'nest egg', commonly 3 to 6 months of your expenses, which can be withdrawn in 24 hours for emergencies, ie. If you are retrenched, or uninsured property is stolen etc. A money market will track inflation and maybe just beat it. For example, from March 2002 to March 2012, the 10 year average interest across RSA money market accounts is 8.67% p.a, or 2.44 percent above inflation.

Medium/Long Term Investments
I would suggest Coronation and Allan Gray as they both have excellent current and historical results.
Although past performance is not necessarily an indication of future success I fully agree with the statements that long term investments are the key to wealth creation. A number of funds are available with varying degrees of risk, and drawdown. For example, if you are prepared to put the money away for five years, then go for higher risk, because in the case of a draw down the equities should recover within 2 or 3 years.

I'm sure at this point you are thinking you still want instant access to your money. You want a high return with instant access. Unfortunately you can't have both, unless you are very clued up on shares or Forex and can see some movements about to happen. If done incorrectly shares and Forex trading are get-poor-quick schemes. The chances are you won't beat Coronation or Allan Gray at their own game.

So now, I would suggest that if you have R500k to invest, stick 30% of this money into a money market account to track or slightly beat inflation (where you should have 24h access), and put the rest into Coronation/Allan Gray.
Coronation has a number of different funds, I won't go into detail here, but here are three options:

Strategic Income - 11.2% p.a. since 2001 - 1 to 3 years recommended

"An intelligent alternative to cash or bank deposits over periods of 1 – 3 years. The Strategic Income Fund is a conservative multi-asset fund that aims to provide a higher level of income than a pure income fund."

Capital Plus - 14.78% p.a. since 2001 - 3 years and longer recommended
"Focused on providing a growing regular income. Ideal for investors in retirement."

Top 20 - 22.88% p.a. since 2000 - 5 years and longer recommended.
Best performing general equity fund in South Africa over 5, 10 years and since launch.


Now, you can pull your money out of these funds relatively easily, however one big mistake is to pull the money out of a unit trust fund at a LOW, because you need it immediately, that's where your 'nest egg' should support you so you don't have to do this.

Example Scenario
Lets say you had put R500k, ten years ago with R150k in a money market or income fund, leaving you with R350k to invest for ten years in Coronations Top 20.

R 350 000 would now be worth R 2 913 069!

If you had put this R 350 000 in a money market, it would now be worth approx R 803 000.
So ask yourself, how urgently do you need quick access to your money.

I know I haven't answered your question, but I'm sure this info will be of use to you or some others on this forum.

You can find more info on Coronations funds here:
http://www.coronation.com/personal/domestic-funds

Another interesting tool is "Suppose you had invested in Coronation sooner?"
http://www.coronation.com/fundcalculator/index.aspx

I am not affiliated in any way with Coronation or Allan Gray.
 
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supersunbird

Honorary Master
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
60,142
What is your goal with this investment? and the timeframe? and how problematic is loosing even a small bit over a short term? You most likely need to diversified portfolio but the balances will depend on your answers.

Most unit trusts will pay you out in 2 to 3 days at most.
 

kahoel117

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
125
I was going to ask the same question and must say this topic is very interesting. I have R355000 I would like to invest, but I would also like instant access to atleast a percentage of the money.
Currently have it in an money market account.
Though I have about R30000 invested at Allan Gray. I think I might have selected the wrong fund as the returns has not been that high.
Some people say also that property investment is the best way to go.
 

Gaz{M}

Executive Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2005
Messages
7,490
1. Quick Access to your Money
2. High Returns
3. Low Risk

Pick 2
 

SpoonTech

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Messages
360
I was going to ask the same question and must say this topic is very interesting. I have R355000 I would like to invest, but I would also like instant access to atleast a percentage of the money.
Currently have it in an money market account.
Though I have about R30000 invested at Allan Gray. I think I might have selected the wrong fund as the returns has not been that high.
Some people say also that property investment is the best way to go.

When investing in funds with firms like Allan Gray, I believe the biggest two mistakes are:
1) Not understanding the powers of compound interest. “Compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world. He who understands it, earns it ... he who doesn't ... pays it.” - Albert Einstein
2) Trying to mitigate your risk so much that you do not harness the full powers of compounding.

What fund are you currently invested in at Allan Gray?
In how many years are you planning to buy a house.

I read a very interesting section of a book called "Become Your Own Financial Advisor: The real secrets to becoming financially independent" by Warren Ingram. (It is a short book filled with an incredible amount of financial common sense! I would recommend it to anyone. It is easy to read even for those without a financial mind.)

The section discussed South African's fixation with housing bonds. In almost all market conditions (except directly following a recession), the rental market is lower than the buying market. For example:

A R1.2 million rand house/flat will have a bond of approx R12k per month. The rental price on a equivalent house would be about R8 to R8.5k per month. IF AND ONLY IF, you invest the difference between these two amounts in a fund/shares earning 15% or greater, you can buy the house you are living in by year 13. And then it is fully paid off. The bond payer will still be paying until the end of 20 years.

You say this, " I have R355000 I would like to invest, but I would also like instant access to atleast a percentage of the money. "
So then think about the percentage you want instant access to, and leave it in the money market account. Let's say you want immediate access to 15% of that money, you still have R301k to invest in a high earning mixed class/equity account.

The different between the Top20/Equity funds and the balanced funds is that the balanced funds offer a diversified asset portfolio where the Top20/Equity invests only in top JSE shares.

R300k in coronations Top20 five years ago would yield: R839k
R300k in coronations Balanced plus five years ago would yield: R685k
R150k in each fund five years ago would yeild: R762k

For example, the breakdown of Coronations Balanced Plus fund can be found here:
http://www.coronation.com/assets/factsheet/2013/November/CORONATION BALANCED PLUS FUND.pdf

This fund invests in both local and international assets (Shares, Property, Bonds, Cash, Commodities).

I would recommend splitting that money between the Allan Gray Balanced Fund, and the Allan Gray Equity Fund. (If Allan Gray is your pick), else Coronations Balanced Plus or Coronation Top-20 fund.

http://www.coronation.com/personal/domestic-funds/needs/CBF
http://www.coronation.com/personal/domestic-funds/needs/CNTF

http://www.allangray.co.za/individualInvestors.aspx#unittrusts
 

kahoel117

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
125
Hi spoontech
Thanks for your reply. I currently have 2x funds with Allan Gray. The "Allan Gray money market fund" and the "Allan Gray stable fund".
I want to buy a house in about a year and a half. My current lease is till January 2015.
I would like to stay with Allan Gray since I already have an investment with them.
 

supersunbird

Honorary Master
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
60,142
Hi spoontech
Thanks for your reply. I currently have 2x funds with Allan Gray. The "Allan Gray money market fund" and the "Allan Gray stable fund".
I want to buy a house in about a year and a half. My current lease is till January 2015.
I would like to stay with Allan Gray since I already have an investment with them.

A year and a half is too short term to risk your capital on the equity markets, where it is as fine as long as it beats inflation.
 
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kahoel117

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Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
125
I know it's short. I was also thinking about just making a home loan and buy a house. I do work a lot of overtime and that's how I am saving at the moment. Was just going to pump that overtime money into my bond to pay it off quicker. Then at least I can let my investment grow without touching it in the near future.
 

Other Pineapple Smurf

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Jun 21, 2008
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Ps: my reason for the investment is to buy a house. Am currently renting.

With R350K you can secure yourself a comfortable bond. Just don't tell the bank your going to use the full amount as a deposit. You're better off offering 5% deposit max, then put the balance into the bond. Just remember you have fees when buying a house that kick you hard in the balls (I paid R30K on a R735K house, a friend R70K on a R1.5 million house and as he says, its money you will never see again)
 

Other Pineapple Smurf

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Jun 21, 2008
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...

Example Scenario
Lets say you had put R500k, ten years ago with R150k in a money market or income fund, leaving you with R350k to invest for ten years in Coronations Top 20.

R 350 000 would now be worth R 2 913 069!

If you had put this R 350 000 in a money market, it would now be worth approx R 803 000.
So ask yourself, how urgently do you need quick access to your money.

....

If you bought R500k worth of Bitcoins a year ago you would have R36 million. Easier to give advice after the event. Nobody knows what is going to happen, never mind 10 years from now.
 

kahoel117

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Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
125
was also told that etf's is a good way to invest. will have to do some research
 

supersunbird

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Oct 1, 2005
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With R350K you can secure yourself a comfortable bond. Just don't tell the bank your going to use the full amount as a deposit. You're better off offering 5% deposit max, then put the balance into the bond. Just remember you have fees when buying a house that kick you hard in the balls (I paid R30K on a R735K house, a friend R70K on a R1.5 million house and as he says, its money you will never see again)

Good suggestion.

was also told that etf's is a good way to invest. will have to do some research

ETFs are good for investing but they also just track their relevant JSE components or whatever other indexes, so its still mainly in equity and similar. For your home buying savings I would still leave them where they are, safe from fluctuation, the term is just to short..
 

Sinbad

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Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
81,151
Good suggestion.



ETFs are good for investing but they also just track their relevant JSE components or whatever other indexes, so its still mainly in equity and similar. For your home buying savings I would still leave them where they are, safe from fluctuation, the term is just to short..

There is a physical gold ETF as well. They can comprise pretty much any asset class
 
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