Big petrol price hike in South Africa tomorrow due to surge in oil cost

[hj007]

Maybe we should get a few more electric cars into the country. At least the cost of electricity doesn’t change every other month.

A medium sized petrol car uses 8l/100km. So we’re looking at 8*R17.39 = R139.12/100km

A medium sized electric car uses 20kWh/100km. I pay Eskom about R2.00/kWh so the same 100km would only cost me 20*R2.00 = R40/100km

R139 vs R40. I know which one I would choose if I actually had a choice.

Fun fact: Each litre of petrol has about 9.3kWh worth of energy so the same petrol car as above is effectively using 8*9.3kWh = 74.4 kWh/100km! Or to put is differently 1kWh worth of petrol only costs R1.79 but you need way more per 100 km than in an electric car. Just goes to show how wasteful petrol or diesel engines are…

Does the use of life of batteries, and therefore resale, versus petrol affect this calculation? Would I need to replace the batteries after 10 years vs replacing the petrol engine?

ie. I'd be interested in a total cost of ownership calc (Price + Fuel/Electricity + Maintenance) for SA where EV's attract 45-100% tax.

 

[supersunbird]

Govt: "with all the people working from home during Level 4 lockdown, if only there was a way we could get more fuel money with less people putting fuel in...."

If only that was how it worked, but the only persons getting more are the fuel manufacturers, and if people drive less due to the prices being unaffordable, government get less income from fuel.

 

[The_MAC]

E-Tolls, Fuel Levy, TV License, NHI, what next, VAT, again?

 

[pinball wizard]

E-Tolls, Fuel Levy, TV License, what next, VAT, again?

NHI tax...

 

[The_MAC]

NHI tax...

Thanks, will update..

 

[Neuk_]

Govt: "with all the people working from home during Level 4 lockdown, if only there was a way we could get more fuel money with less people putting fuel in...."

You do understand that the government makes zero extra from taxes or levies when the monthly fuel price is adjusted?

 

[supersunbird]

E-Tolls, Fuel Levy, TV License, NHI, what next, VAT, again?

Nothing to do with this fuel price increase, just the fuel price overall.

 

[Neuk_]

If only that was how it worked, but the only persons getting more are the fuel manufacturers, and if people drive less due to the prices being unaffordable, government get less income from fuel.

I am the first to criticise the government for fleecing tax payers but I still don't understand how people don't understand how the monthly fuel price fluctuations work

 

[supersunbird]

You do understand that the government makes zero extra from taxes or levies when the monthly fuel price is adjusted?

I wonder if these posters go "Hah, less money for government hahaha" in threads about fuel price decreases.... I don't actually have to wonder, no they don't.

 

[Neuk_]

I wonder if these posters go "Hah, less money for government hahaha" in threads about fuel price decreases.... I don't actually have to wonder, no they don't.

Are they the same people that question import parity pricing of fuel since 'SA makes it's fuel from coal!'?

 

[supersunbird]

Are they the same people that question import parity pricing of fuel since 'SA makes it's fuel from coal!'?

Probably, not realizing that it won't make a difference, market forces would drive the price up since demand for the initially cheaper coal derived fuel would be high and thus the price would increase quickly to be at parity with derived from other source, plain old supply and demand pricing in effect.

 

[neoprema]

You do understand that the government makes zero extra from taxes or levies when the monthly fuel price is adjusted?

And who is seeing this audited report that the price the Govt paid for fuel from global suppliers is being sold sans any markup to the gas stations? I don't know, it might be public i'm just saying. Do we see how much Govt pays OPEC and friends for the fuel being imported?

 

[supersunbird]

And who is seeing this audited report that the price the Govt paid for fuel from global suppliers is being sold sans any markup to the gas stations? I don't know, it might be public i'm just saying. Do we see how much Govt pays OPEC and friends for the fuel being imported?

Govt doesn't do that, so your argument is mute.

 

[Neuk_]

Probably, not realizing that it won't make a difference, market forces would drive the price up since demand for the initially cheaper coal derived fuel would be high and thus the price would increase quickly to be at parity with derived from other source, plain old supply and demand pricing in effect.

It is even simpler but also more complex than that, I forgot about fuel being made from gas but even if you combine the CTL and GTL only around 27% of fuel made in SA is NOT made from crude oil.

 

[Neuk_]

And who is seeing this audited report that the price the Govt paid for fuel from global suppliers is being sold sans any markup to the gas stations? I don't know, it might be public i'm just saying. Do we see how much Govt pays OPEC and friends for the fuel being imported?

Each fuel manufacturer in SA buys the crude it needs to manufacturer fuel or the fully imported fuel it needs to meet it's demand. I am not sure if the SA government buys raw crude or imports its own fuel but as far as I know it does not get involved in buying crude or fuel for the local market.

 

[neoprema]

Govt doesn't do that, so your argument is mute.

i see.

 

[Neuk_]

Each fuel manufacturer in SA buys the crude it needs to manufacturer fuel or the fully imported fuel it needs to meet it's demand. I am not sure if the SA government buys raw crude or imports its own fuel but as far as I know it does not get involved in buying crude or fuel for the local market.

I forgot, PetroSA is state owned but it is a GTL fuel manufacturer so doesn't buy crude.

 

[The_MAC]

Nothing to do with this fuel price increase, just the fuel price overall.

Thanks, will remove..

 

[Mekon]

Can't wait for all the bread prices to rise citing petrol costs as the reason, even though they haven't dropped when fuel was cheaper.

Have food prices ever dropped when there were big or small drops in the fuel price? Not a fokken chance because with food retailers - greed is good.

 

[Johnatan56]

Does the use of life of batteries, and therefore resale, versus petrol affect this calculation? Would I need to replace the batteries after 10 years vs replacing the petrol engine?

ie. I'd be interested in a total cost of ownership calc (Price + Fuel/Electricity + Maintenance) for SA where EV's attract 45-100% tax.

Tesla states 300-500k miles, so 500-800k km, other sources state 10% degradation for 150k for the newer stuff, this is the older one:

A look at Tesla battery degradation and replacement after 400,000 miles

In this new installment of our series on the highest-mileage Tesla Model X (and one of the highest mileage EVs...

electrek.co

So new one you're looking at 10% / 160000km or so.

My mom's old Prius (3nd gen* fixed, 2010) is hitting 300k now I think, battery is still good enough, went from 4.5l/100km to 5.0l/100km over about 10 years this year (note that it's a tiny battery, so you wear through cycles a lot faster).

It will be more interesting in regards to what Ford's stats etc. are. Note as well the saving in service costs.

Maybe we should get a few more electric cars into the country. At least the cost of electricity doesn’t change every other month.

A medium sized petrol car uses 8l/100km. So we’re looking at 8*R17.39 = R139.12/100km

A medium sized electric car uses 20kWh/100km. I pay Eskom about R2.00/kWh so the same 100km would only cost me 20*R2.00 = R40/100km

R139 vs R40. I know which one I would choose if I actually had a choice.

Fun fact: Each litre of petrol has about 9.3kWh worth of energy so the same petrol car as above is effectively using 8*9.3kWh = 74.4 kWh/100km! Or to put is differently 1kWh worth of petrol only costs R1.79 but you need way more per 100 km than in an electric car. Just goes to show how wasteful petrol or diesel engines are…

Factor another ~10-15% loss for from wall to car for conversion.