Bitcoin has no intrinsic value — Top hedge fund manager

Ghost64

Expert Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2021
Messages
1,844
Siener Van Verster...
did he profit from the fall of African bank and Steinhoff? If not he’s just trying to predict things like everyone else discussing crypto’s.
 

Mister 45

Executive Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2011
Messages
6,509
"Jean Pierre Verster has no intrinsic value, says Bitcoin".

Full discloser: I bought myself a 2018 4x4 Hilux Dakar (35k km on the clock) plus a slide on camper and extras (total cost of purchase +-R800k). All from a R1.5k dice roll on bitcoin many moons ago, so my viewpoint might be a little skewed.
 

krycor

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
18,538
"yOu CaN mAkE sTuFf oUt Of iT!"

And there is a limited amount of it.. in fact we nearing the point where what’s in the ground won’t be retrieved due to cost efficacy. It’s gonna be interesting wrt electronics compared to jewelry use cases.
 

krycor

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
18,538
What intrinsic value does gold have?

Elemental characteristics, limited supply, etc. as we move to more electronics in everything, gold for jewelry, value store etc will become an interesting problem.

Good luck repurposing your bitcoin.. for anything as countries restrict exchanges.

Not saying it doesn’t have value.. just that it’s value is limited on ability to sell it as a item of value. As that’s diminished, you have a musical chair situation playing out.. not so with gold.
 

Snyper564

Executive Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
9,677
Elemental characteristics, limited supply, etc. as we move to more electronics in everything, gold for jewelry, value store etc will become an interesting problem.

Good luck repurposing your bitcoin.. for anything as countries restrict exchanges.

Not saying it doesn’t have value.. just that it’s value is limited on ability to sell it as a item of value. As that’s diminished, you have a musical chair situation playing out.. not so with gold.
Wouldnt even know how to buy an ounce of gold, can quickly go buy some BTC...
 

w1z4rd

Karmic Sangoma
Joined
Jan 17, 2005
Messages
49,414
Elemental characteristics, limited supply, etc. as we move to more electronics in everything, gold for jewelry, value store etc will become an interesting problem.

Good luck repurposing your bitcoin.. for anything as countries restrict exchanges.

Not saying it doesn’t have value.. just that it’s value is limited on ability to sell it as a item of value. As that’s diminished, you have a musical chair situation playing out.. not so with gold.
Your gold can be confiscated by a corrupt authority, my crypto cant. I can walk across a border and maintain my wealth, good luck hauling large amounts of gold around if you need to travel. I can go to a bitcoin atm in many places in the world and convert to their local currency easily. I can also pay someone in bitcoin and its much easier and faster than gold.
 

SoldierMan

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
8,442
I really like Max Keiser (a huge Bitcoin guy) but disagree with him on Bitcoin. He was a huge gold and silver guy and that is what drew me to his show, he still owns precious metals (quite a lot) but punts Bitcoin now. He's not stupid enough to have all his eggs in one basket.

Anyway, he had a guest on his show Keiser Report, Michael Pento, and Michael asked a very simple question: "What stops anyone else from creating the very same thing as Bitcoin?"

Can anyone answer that question.

About the only thing I can come up with is it was the first. But if someone comes up with a "better Bitcoin", what then.

Additionally, who controls the financial world? The central banks.
Do any of the central banks own or have big stakes in Bitcoin? No.

With the World Economic Forum talking about the "Great Reset" what part will Bitcoin have? Who knows, but it won't be significant, if any of the CBs have anything to say about it.

Also, most countries it seems will be going digital.

They won't want any competition for their individual digital currencies and could that be what China had in mind when they banned all crypto. Sure on their own it didn't have a big impact, but if the rest of the world bans crypto when most of the digital currencies are released, Bitcoin will die a pretty quick death.

Sure, countries (other than China) aren't in opposition to Bitcoin right now as they probably see it as a great way to get the people used to a cashless digital world.

But make no mistake, they can just as easily ban Bitcoin in the blink of an eye.
 

saor

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 3, 2012
Messages
28,687
Anyway, he had a guest on his show Keiser Report, Michael Pento, and Michael asked a very simple question: "What stops anyone else from creating the very same thing as Bitcoin?"

Can anyone answer that question.
There's a billion other blockchains with their own tokens / coins / assets. So it's a bit of a non-question. There are plenty of other crypto projects. Programming a blockchain & various cryptographic systems is a normal skill that people offer nowadays. There's nothing special about bitcoin that hasn't been replicated or improved elsewhere.

Good luck getting people to drive up the value though.
 

SoldierMan

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
8,442
There's a billion other blockchains with their own tokens / coins / assets. So it's a bit of a non-question. There are plenty of other crypto projects. Programming a blockchain & various cryptographic systems is a normal skill that people offer nowadays. There's nothing special about bitcoin that hasn't been replicated or improved elsewhere.

Good luck getting people to drive up the value though.

That's kinda the point; what is driving the value of Bitcoin - sentiment, just like fiat.

Sentiment could change when a new, better crypto comes along. Of course Bitcoin has a head start and it's reputation, but that can change.

Unlike gold and silver which are real, tangible things that have physical, real world applications like jewellery, cutlery, and silver has even more value in industrial applications like in solar and electric vehicles.

The big secret that no one talks about is where is all the silver going to come from to create all these electric cars? It is only a matter of time before this is realised and the gold silver ratio returns to the days of old.
 

j4ck455

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
6,812
Verster previously explained the only way you can make money from cryptocurrencies is to sell it to another person at a higher price.

I don’t like those types of investments because it makes me dependant on what the other person thinks the asset is worth,” Verster said.

It is also not possible to accurately calculate how much a certain cryptocurrency is worth because it is not possible to apply fundamental investment principles to calculate this value.

It means cryptocurrencies are, per definition, a speculative investment where the yield depends on selling it at a higher price in future.
How is that any different from share prices for stock exchange listed companies?

How does one apply fundamental investment principles when directors of companies are being economical with the truth about the state of the company they are directing?

My opinion is that cryptocurrencies are almost completely useless as a currency because they are not widely adopted as a form of payment for everyday stuff.

Sure you can pay for some things online using cryptocurrencies but it is not widely adopted as a legitimate form of payment, and a lot of the reasons for that are regulatory and the crackdown on cryptocurrencies just gets worse.

For that reason alone, I don't see the point of exchanging my real money for funny money that I cannot use everywhere.

When that changes, I will have no problem using cryptocurrency as a form of payment, and maybe even as an investment.
 

Brenden_E

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Messages
7,369
What intrinsic value does gold have?
For one, it's real. It has unique properties as a metal, etc, etc.
I'm not advocating one way or another, but clearly, bitcoin has no intrinsic value, unlike Gold.

Fiat currencies also do not have intrinsic value. And bitcoin's rise is mostly due to the shitshow of govt's around the world in running the monetary systems so poorly.
 

Thor

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
42,828
JP's been wrong consistently since 2015

Protea capital fund

11.91% last 7 years
and the index did 18%

poor numbers both, but yea better off buying an SP500 index fund than give him your money and now you want to listen to him on bitcoin?
 

Sensorei

Executive Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
5,989
By the of some people in this thread Facebook, Google and Twitter aren't real because without the internet they are useless and can't exist. Bitcoin exists on the internet just like these huge Billion dollar companies. The internet is very real and tangible.

Bitcoin and other cryptos will soon be currencies of the internet. It's an obvious natural progression. Crypto now is where Google was in 1998 and where social media was with Facebook in 2005. You can either be late to the party and stay poor, or not be stupid and learn from the mistaken people in the 90's were who were saying they will never need email.
 
Top