Bitcoin has no intrinsic value — Top hedge fund manager

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InvisibleJim

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j4ck455 said:
How is that any different from share prices for stock exchange listed companies?

How does one apply fundamental investment principles when directors of companies are being economical with the truth about the state of the company they are directing?
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It's similar in that the share price at any given time represents a collective opinion of the perceived value of an equity - at a point in time it may under or over value the stock. Or it may be pretty much spot on sometimes.

The difference in the case of equities is that the underlying business has a tangible intrinsic value that you can estimate according to the model of your choice - so you can make a call to buy stock that is undervalued by the market or sell a stock that is overvalued. This is basically what Warren Buffet is doing when they talk about him 'buying a dollar for 60 cents.'

With a cryptocurrency, how can you model the intrinsic value to relate to the value perceived by the market?

In terms of company directors being economical with the truth about the health of their companies, there would usually be indicators that a listed company is poorly run in some respect - startup that doesn't have an established track record, excessive debt, overly aggressive growth by acquisition, non-payment of dividends, not profitable for example would all be red flags to a value investor and are quite difficult to hide. Quite easy to blind people to the fundamentals with hype, spin and misdirection though.
 
Moto Guzzi

Moto Guzzi

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Hanno Labuschagne said:
Bitcoin has no intrinsic value — Top hedge fund manager

Protea Capital Management CEO Jean Pierre Verster says he is not a crypto bull and that cryptocurrencies have elements of a Ponzi scheme.

Verster is one of South Africa’s top hedge fund managers, and is well known for predicting the troubles at African Bank and Steinhoff and shorting their stock.

Speaking to Biznews, Verster said he thinks blockchain is a wonderful technology and will find applications when it comes to having open ledgers.
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Digital in its basic form, has already abstract elements, and crypto is far above that in abstractness, and I dont want to give any value whatsoever to the abstract of digital, especially a crypto is riding on the back of real money.
If Crypto want to take over real money function, why not do it by giving each of us cryptos, we throw away our darn money and live happily ever after plucking crypto from trees.

The digital technicrats honestly believe you can pull an income from Fresh Air, not realising whatever you do in this regard Nature in a closed system like Planet EArth WILL force you to take resources into account, theres a hard relationship that cannot be ingnored between the two, if you do your futures are going to starve of hunger at 7 Billion scale plus & growing.
-No resources left=Money has zero value.
-No resources left=Crypto has zero value.
-You can de hell mine all you want....Nothing but power consumption.

No you cannot grab money/income from Fresh Air on this planet, and we are too stupid to out perform Nature as well, so that rule stands.
 
j4ck455

j4ck455

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InvisibleJim said:
It's similar in that the share price at any given time represents a collective opinion of the perceived value of an equity - at a point in time it may under or over value the stock. Or it may be pretty much spot on sometimes.
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I'm not so sure about that, take panic selling as an example, all it takes is a negative rumour and the collective opinion is no longer based on fact.

Exceptions to every rule apply.

InvisibleJim said:
The difference in the case of equities is that the underlying business has a tangible intrinsic value that you can estimate according to the model of your choice - so you can make a call to buy stock that is undervalued by the market or sell a stock that is overvalued. This is basically what Warren Buffet is doing when they talk about him 'buying a dollar for 60 cents.'

With a cryptocurrency, how can you model the intrinsic value to relate to the value perceived by the market?
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No contest.

InvisibleJim said:
In terms of company directors being economical with the truth about the health of their companies, there would usually be indicators that a listed company is poorly run in some respect - startup that doesn't have an established track record, excessive debt, overly aggressive growth by acquisition, non-payment of dividends, not profitable for example would all be red flags to a value investor and are quite difficult to hide. Quite easy to blind people to the fundamentals with hype, spin and misdirection though.
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Take Steinhoff as an example, sure the signs were there, but the alarm bells failed to ring for years.

As far as Ponzi schemes go, the worst Ponzi schemes are run by politicians (these schemes are called governments, and voters are the losers that buy into the BS).
 
Pegasus

Pegasus

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3WA said:
I'm not gonna waste time on a Bitcoin youtuber unless their eyes look like this:

View attachment 1158706
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Hey, I got a left winger, a right winger and a good story from 60 minutes on the dark side. For balance.

The 60 minutes one is from 2019, it interesting to see what happened to the people they interviewed since then.
 
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Sensorei

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Pegasus said:
Hey, I got a left winger, a right winger and a good story from 60 minutes on the dark side. For balance.

The 60 minutes one is from 2019, it interesting to see what happened to the people they interviewed since then.
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Ben Shapiro's video is to the point and is spot on. Most people don't realise that they don't understand how the fiat monetary system works and that it's designed to depreciate your wealth. His video simplifies it well and why Bitcoin works.

Russell has no clue and is reading cue cards from BBC Newsround.

Last video is entertaining, a good warning about pump n dump schemes, but doesn't explain how crypto works and leaves the public even more sceptical.
 
Pegasus

Pegasus

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Sensorei said:
Ben Shapiro's video is to the point and is spot on. Most people don't realise that they don't understand how the fiat monetary system works and that it's designed to depreciate your wealth. His video simplifies it well and why Bitcoin works.

Russell has no clue and is reading cue cards from BBC Newsround.

Last video is entertaining, a good warning about pump n dump schemes, but doesn't explain how crypto works and leaves the public even more sceptical.
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I posted those two because it’s a good into for beginners.
There’s a 90 minute Jordan Peterson one which I thought was pretty good, but most people here wouldn’t watch it.

 
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Sensorei

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Pegasus said:
I posted those two because it’s a good into for beginners.
There’s a 90 minute Jordan Peterson one which I thought was pretty good, but most people here wouldn’t watch it.

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Yea I enjoyed that, but will go over the head of most. Robert Breedlove has some great insights.
 
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saturnz

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Gatecrasher said:
Yes, it is. It is backed by governments that raise taxes. When Bitcoin can raise taxes then I will get excited. Until then it is overpriced voodoo.
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what part of what you just said is anything near to what the definition of money is?
 
C4Cat

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saturnz said:
what part of what you just said is anything near to what the definition of money is?
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Fiat currency is both a legally protected medium of exchange and a widely used medium of exchange. That makes it money. Bitcoin is neither. That may change, in terms of becoming a legally protected medium of exchange, but until there is a great improvement in mining technology it's unlikely to be widely used.
 
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saturnz

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C4Cat said:
Fiat currency is both a legally protected medium of exchange and a widely used medium of exchange. That makes it money.
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you are aware there is an actual definition of money right?
 
Pegasus

Pegasus

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C4Cat said:
Fiat currency is both a legally protected medium of exchange and a widely used medium of exchange. That makes it money. Bitcoin is neither. That may change, in terms of becoming a legally protected medium of exchange, but until there is a great improvement in mining technology it's unlikely to be widely used.
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Have you done any reading up on how currencies and blockchain work before coming to your conclusion?
 
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