Bitcoin Thread - 2018

Snyper564

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Just to make it super clear. If you are trading BTC/ZAR or BTC/USD or any CRYPTO/ZAR pair that the moment you sell BTC back to ZAR and then buy with ZAR back into BTC the value moving from BTC to ZAR is taxable on capital gains if any gains were achieved on the movement.

Anyone trading longterm in BTC should consider derivative platforms where their capital remains in a crypto asset at all times to avoid capital gains at least until/if they decide to make Crypto directly taxable in itself which would be incredibly hard to do so i doubt this would ever happen.

If you have no interest in leveraged trading then just stick to 1x leverage if you decide to "buy" ie. go long. If you decide to not be in a position then just exit the Long and sit on the BTC balance until you feel you need to go Long again. If you get more experience then you can also start to work on going the sell direction ie. 1x Short. This is the safest non capital gains way to increase your BTC holdings without dealing with taxable fiat.
no its not cgt its income tax if you buy and sell short term its income tax long term cgt can only then be argued and we talking 1-3 years not 1 month

 

Swa

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Just to make it super clear. If you are trading BTC/ZAR or BTC/USD or any CRYPTO/ZAR pair that the moment you sell BTC back to ZAR and then buy with ZAR back into BTC the value moving from BTC to ZAR is taxable on capital gains if any gains were achieved on the movement.

Anyone trading longterm in BTC should consider derivative platforms where their capital remains in a crypto asset at all times to avoid capital gains at least until/if they decide to make Crypto directly taxable in itself which would be incredibly hard to do so i doubt this would ever happen.

If you have no interest in leveraged trading then just stick to 1x leverage if you decide to "buy" ie. go long. If you decide to not be in a position then just exit the Long and sit on the BTC balance until you feel you need to go Long again. If you get more experience then you can also start to work on going the sell direction ie. 1x Short. This is the safest non capital gains way to increase your BTC holdings without dealing with taxable fiat.
Any exchange between crypto you get hit at the current Rand value. Bitmex is the only exception because you don't exchange crypto and are essentially buying Bitcoin using Bitcoin. It may be different though if you also trade in other crypto like ETH.
 

John Tempus

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Any exchange between crypto you get hit at the current Rand value. Bitmex is the only exception because you don't exchange crypto and are essentially buying Bitcoin using Bitcoin. It may be different though if you also trade in other crypto like ETH.
Any exchange where you trade between 2 crypto pairs cannot be taxable until you convert it to the legal tender ie. ZAR in SA.

You cannot be taxed on BTC gains if you turn 1 BTC into 2 BTC without ever moving to ZAR in between transactions. If that was possible to get taxed then SARS would have to show where you need to deposit BTC taxable gains on the 1 BTC profit because there is no way for them to claim you made Rx on the 1 BTC to 2 BTC increase if you never sold it to ZAR and they cant force you to liquidate an asset into ZAR if you have no intention to sell it yet.
 

Swa

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Any exchange where you trade between 2 crypto pairs cannot be taxable until you convert it to the legal tender ie. ZAR in SA.

You cannot be taxed on BTC gains if you turn 1 BTC into 2 BTC without ever moving to ZAR in between transactions. If that was possible to get taxed then SARS would have to show where you need to deposit BTC taxable gains on the 1 BTC profit because there is no way for them to claim you made Rx on the 1 BTC to 2 BTC increase if you never sold it to ZAR and they cant force you to liquidate an asset into ZAR if you have no intention to sell it yet.
Not quite how it works. Any conversions or earnings whether it's crypto or foreign currency are taxable at the current market rate. Why mining is taxable even though you haven't received any Rand value yet. When you sell the difference is either a gain or a loss that's taxed or offset against your other earnings. When buying contracts however with BTC there is no conversion but theoretically Sars could still tax earnings at the time they're made.

This differs from territory to territory but Sars have not issued any guidelines for crypto however.
 

John Tempus

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Not quite how it works. Any conversions or earnings whether it's crypto or foreign currency are taxable at the current market rate. Why mining is taxable even though you haven't received any Rand value yet. When you sell the difference is either a gain or a loss that's taxed or offset against your other earnings. When buying contracts however with BTC there is no conversion but theoretically Sars could still tax earnings at the time they're made.

This differs from territory to territory but Sars have not issued any guidelines for crypto however.
Im referring to SARS guidelines to crypto earnings in SA. It is only taxable once crypto is converted to ZAR. None of my comments relate to other countries.
 

Snyper564

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Not quite how it works. Any conversions or earnings whether it's crypto or foreign currency are taxable at the current market rate. Why mining is taxable even though you haven't received any Rand value yet. When you sell the difference is either a gain or a loss that's taxed or offset against your other earnings. When buying contracts however with BTC there is no conversion but theoretically Sars could still tax earnings at the time they're made.

This differs from territory to territory but Sars have not issued any guidelines for crypto however.
Sars issued guidelines long ago

 

Swa

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Those are not guidelines. That merely states crypto falls under existing tax laws. The real guidelines everyone's been waiting for for how to treat crypto have never materialised. Under existing tax law everything I say applies.
 

Snyper564

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Those are not guidelines. That merely states crypto falls under existing tax laws. The real guidelines everyone's been waiting for for how to treat crypto have never materialised. Under existing tax law everything I say applies.
ah ok no worries then :)
 

Odracir

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What I don't like about this tax issue is the fact when you make a profit they are quick to join in but when you make a loss they nowhere to be found in making your pain less.
 
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Snyper564

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What I don't like about this tax issue is the fact when you make a profit they are quick to join in but when you make a loss they nowhere to be found in making your pain less.
You do realize you pay tax on your profit and you get to deduct your loss from tax if you make a loss. There is no scam here... You win they win you lose they lose.

Actually if you paid paye and incurred a loss on trading Sars would refund upto your paye paid. After that it becomes an assessed loss carried forward to the following year
 

backstreetboy

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Take the tax drivel elsewhere. Unless SARS auto populate it I couldn't care any less. Let's get back to is bitcoin going up or down? What's the next big move?
 

Snyper564

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Take the tax drivel elsewhere. Unless SARS auto populate it I couldn't care any less. Let's get back to is bitcoin going up or down? What's the next big move?
Yeah mess with sars... Anyway that aside. I'm throwing my 2sats behind under 10k within 7 days
 

Swa

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Isn't ETH 2.0 coming soon..as always expect a dump soon as that happens ..
Only the testnet. Ethereum 2.0 will probably not be here before 2022 but a lot of speculators have probably confused the two so expect a big dump as soon as Bitcoin dumps.
 

4cer

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Only the testnet. Ethereum 2.0 will probably not be here before 2022 but a lot of speculators have probably confused the two so expect a big dump as soon as Bitcoin dumps.
Can confirm just sold all my eth, so expect it to pump to the moon
 
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phly

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Mr 9k .... why are we inching further and further away from 10k with each passing day :(
 
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