Body Count

wayfarer

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#1
A research study conducted by NS Sheikh, University of Louisville, attempts to quantify the human death toll of religious and political violence throughout the last two millennia. A comprehensive data list of over 3000 violent clashes (from year 0 to 2008) was developed. 276 were identified as being the most violent, having death tolls over 10 000, and were then ranked by death toll.

The study first produced an aggregate list of major violent conflicts incorporating four categories of violence: civil war, democide, and structural violence. This shows the extent to which violence has been an almost universal form of ‘doing politics’ in all parts of the inhabited world for as long as history has been recorded. The study then quantified the death tolls in the most violent episodes to produce a list of the most violent conflicts. These conflicts were then organized along civilizational lines, thereby showing conflict involvement per civilization.

The following seven civilizations were suggested, and their respective locales indicated:
Civilization----------Locale
Antitheist--------------Communist block
Buddhist---------------East Asia, parts of South Asia
Christian---------------Europe, the Americas, parts of Africa
Indic------------------India, Nepal, Mauritius
Islamic----------------Middle East, parts of Asia, parts of Africa
Primal-Indigenous------Parts of Africa, the Americas before colonialism
Sinic------------------China, some neighbouring states

The study produced many data lists and findings. Amongst its findings was that from year 0 to 2008, religiously and politically motivated violence cost between 450 million and 708 million lives. The comparative list of how the various civilizations contribute (as victims) to these deaths (median used) is as follows:

1. Christian---178 million
2. Antitheist---125 million
3. Sinic---108 million
4. Buddhist---88 million
5. Primal-Indigenous---46 million
6. Islamic---32 million
7. Indic---2 million

The source data tables and full report can be downloaded for free, here.
 

marine1

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#2
Judaism - 0 ?
Can't open on phone
Hold on saw first page, an Islamic study? Érrrr
 
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wayfarer

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#3
Even in the year 2010, Jews only numbered about 13,4 million.

Can't open on phone
It's a PDF doc.

Hold on saw first page, an Islamic study? Érrrr
Actually, the report was published by an international mainstream Islamic group. Give it a go, you may be surprised what you learn when you make direct contact with Islamic expression, and not learn about it exclusively through the media or hate-sites. The study names all the conflicts that it uses, making it testable/verifiable.
 

alloytoo

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#4
Even in the year 2010, Jews only numbered about 13,4 million.


It's a PDF doc.


Actually, the report was published by an international mainstream Islamic group. Give it a go, you may be surprised what you learn when you make direct contact with Islamic expression, and not learn about it exclusively through the media or hate-sites. The study names all the conflicts that it uses, making it testable/verifiable.
What sort of religion is Antitheist?
 

wayfarer

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If you counted WWII alone, it'd put Jews in 7th spot, above Indic, which is included
True, but that was not within the scope of the study, which looked at a slight modification of Huntington's (The Clash of Civilizations) civilization taxonomy. Jews are not considered as a distinct major "civilization". Scan the first 2 pages of the report, and you will have a better understanding.
 

copacetic

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#9
So, the author of the study divides various geographical regions and ascribes a religious group to that area, okay...

...Then denotes an aggressor force and a body count in a given conflict...

...Fair enough, but, what is the study saying essentially? X number of people have died, yes and then an attempt is made to involve religious belief...

...But surely absolute numbers aren't all that meaningful - You would need to examine those conflicts and their death tolls in relation to the average population to get an indication of how 'bloodthirsty' a given conflict actually is...
 

wayfarer

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#11
...an attempt is made to involve religious belief...
I haven't studied the study, but it says that conflicts that were known to be religiously and/or politically motivated were considered.

...But surely absolute numbers aren't all that meaningful - You would need to examine those conflicts and their death tolls in relation to the average population to get an indication of how 'bloodthirsty' a given conflict actually is...
A complete reading of the study will show that contextual qualitative considerations are present, however, the study states that it is primarily concerned with the quantifying of death tolls, and "quantitatively delineating the frequency of major conflict per civilization". After all, it is entitled "Body count".
 

Nerfherder

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#13
True, but that was not within the scope of the study, which looked at a slight modification of Huntington's (The Clash of Civilizations) civilization taxonomy. Jews are not considered as a distinct major "civilization". Scan the first 2 pages of the report, and you will have a better understanding.
I was going to indulge in this little debate but I can already see how its pretty much a troll thread.

Your study has just grouped any killings but people without a major religion together as "Athiest"... and that is not its only fault. Islam is a new religion, its only really getting to the size and influence that Christianity was a long time ago. The Islamic holocaust is still coming... so don't trust those numbers just yet.
 

copacetic

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#14
I haven't studied the study, but it says that conflicts that were known to be religiously and/or politically motivated were considered.
As far as I can gather they took 3000 or so of the most major conflicts of the last 2008 years and then picked a few hundred of the worst. Then ascribed a religious (or lack thereof) label to an aggressor force, based on the area the aggressor force came from.

A complete reading of the study will show that contextual qualitative considerations are present, however, the study states that it is primarily concerned with the quantifying of death tolls, and "quantitatively delineating the frequency of major conflict per civilization". After all, it is entitled "Body count".
I see no mention of relative comparisons to the sizes of the civilizations involved, so what is this study actually saying? Not very much, as far as I can tell, aside from 'people died and we are fairly arbitrarily labelling the aggressors with geographically based religious/civilization affiliations.
 
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#15
Islamic conquest of India - estimated 38 million
Islamic slave trade from Africa - Estimated 19 million
Muslims are somehow excluded from the crusades?
Muslims are somehow excluded from WW1?
Muslims conquered southern Europe and Northern Africa without causing or sustaining mass casualties? Impossible.
The middle east and the surrounding region changed hands how many times? And we are supposed to believe that these changes resulted in almost no casualties?

Also, the attempt of trying to round down and equate communism to antitheism makes it an illogical comparrison. You would need to round down religions to be theist.
By that rationale:

"Anti-theism"/Communism 125 million
Theism/Religion 450+ million
 
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SanchoP

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#17
I think there's confusion here about the meaning of the list. I first thought it was showing how many were killed by each group, but it seems it's actually how many from each group have been killed... see the bolded bit:

The comparative list of how the various civilizations contribute (as victims) to these deaths (median used) is as follows:

1. Christian---178 million
2. Antitheist---125 million
3. Sinic---108 million
4. Buddhist---88 million
5. Primal-Indigenous---46 million
6. Islamic---32 million
7. Indic---2 million
I dunno, this makes no sense any more.

EDIT: I'm just scanning through the PDF and I think the OP has got it wrong in that little bit that I bolded.
The list show how many killings were perpetrated by each civilisation, not how many victims each one had.
So Christians killed 178 million, anti-theists 125 etc.
 
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SanchoP

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#18
So on to my actual point.
For me this list doesn't mean much because it says nothing of motive. For instance it lays 15-60 million deaths at the feet of Christians for WWI, which had nothing to do with their religion. And this goes for most of them. How many of the 38-55 million killed during Soviet rule were killed for anti-theist reasons? Just because Stalin/whoever may have been anti-theist, it doesn't mean the guys killed for being Tsarists can be said to be have been killed for anti-theist reasons.

But I suppose I was just hoping for something different in the study. All it actually achieves is to say which groups of people have been involved in the most deaths...
 

copacetic

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#19
I don't see what religion has to do with the whole study in any case. It's pretty arbitrary; Massive geographical swathe = a given religion.

I don't get it.
 
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