Boeing believes 737 Max won't fly before mid-2020

It will be interesting to see if they can come up with some PR good enough to convince the public to set foot on one of these ever again. I certainly won't.
 
With all the scrutiny on the 737 Max, I would rather fly on this aircraft than one of the previous Boeing airliners where corners would also have been cut.

Or an Airbus.
 
With all the scrutiny on the 737 Max, I would rather fly on this aircraft than one of the previous Boeing airliners where corners would also have been cut.
Except the underlying problem is not software, the forward placement of the engines is a fundamental design flaw that tends to pitch the nose up. So it's all well and good that the software might be less flaky now, but I'd still rather take my chances with the other tried and tested 737 models that are at least more aerodynamically stable. (Or an airbus, as you say).
 
They will probably have to rebrand/rename the 737 Max, before anybody would want to fly on them.
They can rebrand them all they want someone will post online that model XYZ is the max
 
this would put them in a heap of trouble if things go bad again..

even if you renamed a Ford Kuga to Ford doesn't explode and nice car,

its still a Ford Kuga.

trying to fix a name wont change the outcome of what Cars/Planes are like.

look to History for the end results.
the Lancia Beta comes to mind, as the great saint Clarksonious talked about.

point is, once a name has been established, very difficult to change the opinion of people.
even with renaming, rebranding, airbrushing away the issues.
 
even if you renamed a Ford Kuga to Ford doesn't explode and nice car,

its still a Ford Kuga.

trying to fix a name wont change the outcome of what Cars/Planes are like.

look to History for the end results.
the Lancia Beta comes to mind, as the great saint Clarksonious talked about.

point is, once a name has been established, very difficult to change the opinion of people.
even with renaming, rebranding, airbrushing away the issues.
But I was saying that, if they rebrand while it's still a 737 Max, and that plane goes down, it's overs for them.. they would have misled the people, which is a big no no.. imo the 737 Max should have been put down and out of business.
 
even if you renamed a Ford Kuga to Ford doesn't explode and nice car,

its still a Ford Kuga.

trying to fix a name wont change the outcome of what Cars/Planes are like.

look to History for the end results.
the Lancia Beta comes to mind, as the great saint Clarksonious talked about.

point is, once a name has been established, very difficult to change the opinion of people.
even with renaming, rebranding, airbrushing away the issues.
But I was saying that, if they rebrand while it's still a 737 Max, and that plane goes down, it's overs for them.. they would have misled the people, which is a big no no.. imo the 737 Max should have been put down and out of business.
 
Honestly, I would be seriously afraid to fly on the newly certified MAX. It needs at least 3 years of incident free flying to prove itself.
 
it's amazing that these problems only affect one of their planes, not any other.

just this one.

the others are all fine.
Not really. It's because in order to accommodate the more efficient but larger engines in this model, they were placed forward of the wing instead of under it, which causes the plane have a tendency to pitch up and stall, so this is what the software is designed to counteract.
 
.... imo the 737 Max should have been put down and out of business.

Unfortunately this it is not possible.

Background: It takes billions and billions of Dollars to develop and certify a new aircraft. Boeing doesn't have anything in the bank to cover that anymore. With so many undelivered airframes sitting at their premises and thousands of unfulfilled ordered, they cannot shut down the program anymore. It has to go forward or it is game over for them. They cannot return the thousands of dollars in orders and if they don't have anything to give to customers then the customers will go to Airbus.

The kink is that they had to develop a new airframe to be able to compete with the A320 NEO which was much cheaper than the excellent selling 737-800 model.

Competition drove Boeing to tweak the old airframe design to become the MAX. It was quicker and cheaper to do that than spend money to develop a completely new airframe.

And with the company already deep into the 787 program which took resources and the need to develop the new 777-8/9/10 large twins, there simply isn't enough funding to develop a new single-isle airframe.
As stated, the time and cost is astronomical in modern times. Even nations struggle to single handedly develop new fighter aircraft. It has become just too expensive to go it alone.

Even though they can still produce more 737-800 series, the operating margin compared to the A320 NEO will be a killer for airlines. It will squeeze the operators of the 737-800 (its a series actually the 737-700 / 737-800 / 737-900 family known as the 737NG New Generation family).

And the time lost now would gift the market over to Airbus.

So, they only have two options left and with both options they are well and truly screwed actually.

Option 1. Shut down the company or sell it to someone.

Option 1: Fix the 737 MAX to eliminate any possibility of anything every happening to any of them. Which in fact is impossible. Anything unforeseen can happen at any time. Another one will go down again at some point in future and that crash would have had absolutely nothing to do with MCAS which should now be properly fixed.

The problem for Boeing is that when another one goes down, the resulting investigation will take at least a year if not longer to determine the cause.
And it would not matter that the cause is not related to the current issues, the flying public will from then forth not want to fly on the MAX. It would have been poisoned.

And we have a similar case in the not too distant past (Boeing featured in that too).:

The Douglas DC-10 had a design flaw on it's cargo door which led to spectacular bad publicity when a couple of them became lawn darts. Even though they fixed the problem, the sales were not steller afterwards.

What eventually happened? Douglas needed money to survive, couldn't get it and in fact Douglas was taken over by McDonnell to form McDonnell Douglas.

McDD then developed the airframe into the McDD MD-11 to get better operating margins (fuel efficiency and lower seat/mile costs to operators. Ahem... Hello 737 MAX.
And to twist the knife even further.... McDD was eventually itself .... taken over by Boeing.

The question is: Is Boeing too large to fail?
I can it it being split into many companies in the near future. Military (Manned/Unmanned), Space, Commercial (Single Isle/Twin Isle) and other military and civillian divisions.
 
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