BREAKING NEWS: A warrant of arrest has been issued for ANC Secretary General Ace Magashule.

TheChamp

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This is my problem with ANC supporters like you. You justify lying.

ANCs idea of innocent until proven guilty means anything goes. ANC's idea of governance is loyalty and paying those close even if they don't do any work. ANC justifies corruption as wealth redistribution.

Put a hit on the bagman. Thats OK. It can never be found.
Get paid in cash only. Thats OK. Cash has not footprint.
Lie in court that you can't afford it. Thats OK. No one will check your income
Lie afterwards that you are not corrupt. That is OK the bagman is dead. There is no link to you and the payments.
Get your entrepreneur friends to hire busses in your supporters to court. That's OK no one will check who paid for them.
Let the state spend money to close down the streets and get police officers to guard the court house. That's OK.
Make a long speech. sing and make threats on an erected stage outside court where you push for liberation of South Africa. That's OK. Being charged for a crime is the ideal opportunity to push your other agendas.
You are going to give yourself a heart attack one of these days, what I said did not deserve such a rant.
 

skimread

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You are going to give yourself a heart attack one of these days, what I said did not deserve such a rant.
You justified that lying to a judge under oath is OK.
What a load of rubbish, yes even to a judge, under oath. Everyone will want to bargain, I can totally see you do the same thing. He did well to cut off R50k from the initial amount.
Then explain what you said better.
 

TheChamp

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You justified that lying to a judge under oath is OK.

Then explain what you said better.
Dude, lying to a judge happens all the time, people take an oath, look the judge in the eye and lie, lawyers, the accused and witnesses.

Contrary to popular belief the truth shall never set you free, if you ever find yourself in court as an accused you take the oath and get on with the business of making sure you are not found guilty, if lying in required you do that, with a straight face and hope the judge buys it.

Finish and klaar skimread, take your goody two shoes argument somewhere.
 

skimread

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Dude, lying to a judge happens all the time, people take an oath, look the judge in the eye and lie, lawyers, the accused and witnesses.

Contrary to popular belief the truth shall never set you free, if you ever find yourself in court as an accused you take the oath and get on with the business of making sure you are not found guilty, if lying in required you do that, with a straight face and hope the judge buys it.

Finish and klaar skimread, take your goody two shoes argument somewhere.
I am not a goody-two-shoes like you claim if I have a problem with him lying under oath, I merely have morals and ethics.

Ace was the premier of the Free State province. He is secretary general of the ANC.
This is the oath that he had to take when he took up his office of premier.

Oath of office or solemn affirmation of Premiers and members of Executive Councils

I, A.B., do hereby swear/solemnly affirm to be faithful to the Republic of South Africa and undertake before those assembled here to hold my office as Premier/Member of the Executive Council of my province with honour and dignity; to respect and uphold the Constitution and all other Law of the Republic of South Africa; to be a true and faithful counsellor; not to divulge directly or indirectly any matters which are entrusted to me under secrecy; and to perform the duties of my office conscientiously and to the best of my ability.
Are you saying it is OK for him to lie despite taking this oath?
 
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SoldierMan

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Dude, lying to a judge happens all the time, people take an oath, look the judge in the eye and lie, lawyers, the accused and witnesses.

Contrary to popular belief the truth shall never set you free, if you ever find yourself in court as an accused you take the oath and get on with the business of making sure you are not found guilty, if lying in required you do that, with a straight face and hope the judge buys it.

Finish and klaar skimread, take your goody two shoes argument somewhere.

Hmmm... *wonders if this type of opinion has anything to do with the shocking chithole state South Africa finds itself in*
 

TheChamp

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Hmmm... *wonders if this type of opinion has anything to do with the shocking chithole state South Africa finds itself in*
Because it does not happen in other parts of the world, accused people go to court and tell the truth because they took an oath, even though the truth could lead to them being convicted?

And I thought skimread was the special one.
 

skimread

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Because it does not happen in other parts of the world, accused people go to court and tell the truth because they took an oath, even though the truth could lead to them being convicted?

And I thought skimread was the special one.
So your justification to lying is whataboutism?

You say: Look in other parts in the word they lie, so Ace is allowed to lie?

Can you give me an example of in other parts in the world where they lied in court that you are comparing Ace's lying to?

Also, you didn't answer the question of he took an oath as premier of the Free State province to uphold the constitution. Is it OK for him to lie despite taking this oath?
 

SoldierMan

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Because it does not happen in other parts of the world, accused people go to court and tell the truth because they took an oath, even though the truth could lead to them being convicted?

And I thought skimread was the special one.

Yeah you're right happens in Zimbabwe to so must be ok....
 

skimread

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Because it does not happen in other parts of the world, accused people go to court and tell the truth because they took an oath, even though the truth could lead to them being convicted?

And I thought skimread was the special one.
I am curious, if you committed a crime, in what scenarios is lying without being caught justifiable to you?
- If you committed money laundering putting a hit on the bagman to eliminate witnesses?
- If you are charged in court and you get someone to break into the prosecutor's house to find what information you have on them
- Paying the police to lose the police docket.
- Paying a traffic cop a bribe not to fine you
- if you are president of SA and putting loyalists as a public protector and NPA in charge who won't charge you
 

/dev/null

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So your justification to lying is whataboutism?

You say: Look in other parts in the word they lie, so Ace is allowed to lie?

Can you give me an example of in other parts in the world where they lied in court that you are comparing Ace's lying to?

Also, you didn't answer the question of he took an oath as premier of the Free State province to uphold the constitution. Is it OK for him to lie despite taking this oath?

I think it's recommended practice to plead "not guilty" for any crime you commit.
 

skimread

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I think it's recommended practice to plead "not guilty" for any crime you commit.
Everyone has the right to make a plea of their choice. That was not the question. The question was lying under oath about facts of the case.
 

TheChamp

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Everyone has the right to make a plea of their choice. That was not the question. The question was lying under oath about facts of the case.
Did you forget that you started this whole argument because of Ace's bail amount? In what world does that form facts of the case?
 

/dev/null

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Before or after taking an oath? :ROFL:
I think at any stage you can assert your innocence, even under cross examination you can tell the court stories about taking a shower after some consensual sex. And in other matters you can tell the court stories about how you shot at an intruder hidden behind the door of your small bathroom. You can make up as many stories as you like while being cross examined under oath.
 

/dev/null

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Everyone has the right to make a plea of their choice. That was not the question. The question was lying under oath about facts of the case.
Yeah, while under oath you can give your own version which can be different from the truth.
 

skimread

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Did you forget that you started this whole argument because of Ace's bail amount? In what world does that form facts of the case?
No. I wanted clarification what you meant with lying under oath.
Dude, lying to a judge happens all the time, people take an oath, look the judge in the eye and lie, lawyers, the accused and witnesses.

Contrary to popular belief the truth shall never set you free, if you ever find yourself in court as an accused you take the oath and get on with the business of making sure you are not found guilty, if lying in required you do that, with a straight face and hope the judge buys it.

Finish and klaar skimread, take your goody two shoes argument somewhere.
You made it clear it is not limited to asking for bail. You said it is doing anything, including lying, to make sure you are not found guilty.
 

Splinter

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You never put cash you received in the banking system. You just use it to pay for restaurants, gifts, groceries, trips, petrol and other things. Depositing cash in banks who defeat the purpose. I don't think they have the right to look at a person's bank statements and notice that the people invovled never pay for anything.
Are you joking?
 

Splinter

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Standard bank go nuts at 50k but dont question 49k transfers. They refused to allow the transaction over 50k until proof of where it came from, who it came from and how it came about.

To avoid this issue in the future, they simply suggested make more larger transactions then triggers dont get pulled.

Transfers? I've done way more than that with no problem. It's when cash of R25000 or more is deposited that they have to report it to the authorities.
 
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