BREAKING: Parliament arsonist charged with terrorism

[Neptuner]

I am still a bit puzzled by the terrorism charge.

It’s a NKP

 

[TelkomUseless]

Imagine if all the homeless banded together what they would accomplish.

More than what the ANC ever did in 27 years...

 

[Gyre]

Maybe he is Mandela 2.0, great political move to boost his career

 

[j4ck455]

The fact that Dali Mpofu has taken on Mafe as a client says a lot (about who paid for and set the arson ball in motion).

Maybe Mafe will be another of Zuma's bitches (along with Carly) when they are all behind bars (I'm not holding my breath).

 

[BuckRogers]

I am still a bit puzzled by the terrorism charge. In the instance that parliamentary mitigation and security implementations, the preventative measures, worked as expected, the damage would have been minimised or avoided, but a terrorism charge is indicative that this terror act would have been carried out irrespectively. It all came down to the appropriate opportunity, the right time, a means to an end, and all that. All in all, the result is not due to incompetence, mismanagement, negligence or otherwise, but due to a planned terrorist act. Just an observational view I have.

Not to mention, this event is very much open to 'political' theories, considering things like sabotage, insurrection, etc. The slow progress being made concerning the July riots doesn't inspire me, it instils more doubt than trust.

The quicker we get to the trials, the better. 2022 is a very competitive ANC year with two electives coming up. Ramaphosa has to glue his house together, to promote his popularity, but at what cost?

In my view, the political landscape is becoming ever more turbulent which doesn't bode coalitions, which we need to better social cohesion, any good either. I think the state, by the masses, is losing the public trust, hence there is public doubt in this case.

Anyhow.

Is the terrorism charge not related to the explosives that was in his possession

 

[Fulcrum29]

Is the terrorism charge not related to the explosives that was in his possession

That is a separate charge, but here is the Act,

https://www.gov.za/sites/default/files/gcis_document/201409/a33-04.pdf (PDF)

To quote in concern to charging a person or group with the Terrorism Act,

Consent of National Director to institute proceedings and reporting obligations

16.

(1) No prosecution under Chapter 2 may be instituted without the written authority of the National Director.

“National Director” means the National Director of Public Prosecutions appointed in terms of section 179(1) of the Constitution;

meaning that Shamila Bathohi had to give the written authority.

Yes, but the Explosives Act would be applicable to the possession. As per the Terrorist Act, but I am unsure under which precise section the suspect is charged with this Act or whether the Act applies broadly. The media quoted, charged with the "Terrorism Act", but I believe, to quote,

Offences relating to explosive or other lethal devices

5. Any person who intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, a state or government facility, a public transport facility, a public transportation system, or an infrastructure facility with the purpose, amongst others, of causing-

(a) death or serious bodily injury; or
(b) extensive damage to, or destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss, is guilty of an offence relating to explosive or other lethal devices.

and those who want to read the Explosives Act, here it is,

https://www.saps.gov.za/resource_centre/acts/downloads/juta/explosive_act_2003a_0015.pdf (PDF)

The NPA still needs to prove it all, and argue it in accordance with the Acts. Intention, motive... but it seems there is an argument to be made that the suspect was not in the right mind, hence the 30-day psychiatric evaluation. Now to quote WebMD on paranoid schizophrenia,

What Is Schizophrenia With Paranoia?

Schizophrenia with paranoia is the most common example of this mental illness. Delusions make someone with it unreasonably suspicious of other people. WebMD explains the symptoms and treatment.

www.webmd.com

Paranoid schizophrenia, or schizophrenia with paranoia as doctors now call it, is the most common example of this mental illness.

Schizophrenia is a kind of psychosis, which means your mind doesn't agree with reality. It affects how you think and behave.

...

Paranoid Symptoms

Delusions are fixed beliefs that seem real to you, even when there's strong evidence they aren't. Paranoid delusions, also called delusions of persecution, reflect profound fear and anxiety along with the loss of the ability to tell what's real and what's not real. They might make you feel like:

• A co-worker is trying to hurt you, like poisoning your food.
• Your spouse or partner is cheating on you.
• The government is spying on you.
• People in your neighborhood are plotting to harass you.

and there are many views on this, but it is accepted in some laws that those with mental illnesses are less responsible, though more prone to criminal activities and aggressiveness. The merits which will be weighed is whether the suspect must be treated or punished, institutionalised the one way or the other, but where punishment is correctional and the other being care (treatment years). I am no expert on these things, but not all courts will come to the same conclusion.

Have to wait until the trial deliberations to know more what is going on here, but I don't believe the terrorism charge will stick where there is mental illness. Intention vs delusion, but delusion can also strengthen the intentional act, it all comes down to the arguments and the evidence.

To quote this paper, it is a selective quote,

Understanding delusions

Delusion has always been a central topic for psychiatric research with regard to etiology, pathogenesis, diagnosis, treatment, and forensic relevance. The various theories and explanations for delusion formation are reviewed. The etiology, classification ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A delusion is the result of the failure of the “objectifying act” because of the strength of the “intentional act.” By “objectifying act” is meant the exercise of man’s ability to be aware of his own intention and action, and by “intentional act” is meant the exercise of man’s ability to wish, desire and imagine some particular action. The strength of this intentional act may become so great that the ego fails to objectify it, i.e., to identify it correctly as a wish, and thus a delusion is established.

there are other medical views, but I must say I have read some interesting things posted on Mybroadband in my time here. The paper is quite the read.

 

[TelkomUseless]

The fact that Dali Mpofu has taken on Mafe as a client says a lot (about who paid for and set the arson ball in motion).

Maybe Mafe will be another of Zuma's bitches (along with Carly) when they are all behind bars (I'm not holding my breath).

I was also wondering why Dali was his advocate.

 

[Neptuner]

That is a separate charge, but here is the Act,

https://www.gov.za/sites/default/files/gcis_document/201409/a33-04.pdf (PDF)

To quote in concern to charging a person or group with the Terrorism Act,





meaning that Shamila Bathohi had to give the written authority.

Yes, but the Explosives Act would be applicable to the possession. As per the Terrorist Act, but I am unsure under which precise section the suspect is charged with this Act or whether the Act applies broadly. The media quoted, charged with the "Terrorism Act", but I believe, to quote,



and those who want to read the Explosives Act, here it is,

https://www.saps.gov.za/resource_centre/acts/downloads/juta/explosive_act_2003a_0015.pdf (PDF)

The NPA still needs to prove it all, and argue it in accordance with the Acts. Intention, motive... but it seems there is an argument to be made that the suspect was not in the right mind, hence the 30-day psychiatric evaluation. Now to quote WebMD on paranoid schizophrenia,

What Is Schizophrenia With Paranoia?

Schizophrenia with paranoia is the most common example of this mental illness. Delusions make someone with it unreasonably suspicious of other people. WebMD explains the symptoms and treatment.

www.webmd.com

and there are many views on this, but it is accepted in some laws that those with mental illnesses are less responsible, though more prone to criminal activities and aggressiveness. The merits which will be weighed is whether the suspect must be treated or punished, institutionalised the one way or the other, but where punishment is correctional and the other being care (treatment years). I am no expert on these things, but not all courts will come to the same conclusion.

Have to wait until the trial deliberations to know more what is going on here, but I don't believe the terrorism charge will stick where there is mental illness. Intention vs delusion, but delusion can also strengthen the intentional act, it all comes down to the arguments and the evidence.

To quote this paper, it is a selective quote,

Understanding delusions

Delusion has always been a central topic for psychiatric research with regard to etiology, pathogenesis, diagnosis, treatment, and forensic relevance. The various theories and explanations for delusion formation are reviewed. The etiology, classification ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

there are other medical views, but I must say I have read some interesting things posted on Mybroadband in my time here. The paper is quite the read.

He attacked/destroyed a National Key Point? it amounts to an act of war against the banana republic…

 

[access]

where was he when uct burned, then again im sure its easy to buy an arsonist on the streets for the right price. and then promise to come to the rescue if things go south.

would not surprise me at all if certain "freedom fighter" instigated and assisted. threatening to burn and destroy and actually doing it is not foreign to those lot, its actually pretty common. many examples.

the fact that cyril was there so quick singing praise in the way that he did also makes me wonder.

 

[Fulcrum29]

Watch | Mafe charged with terrorism for Parliament fire pending psychiatric evaluation | City Press

Alleged Parliament arsonist Zandile Mafe returned to the Cape Town Magistrate’s Court on Tuesday, with civil society calling for his release.

www.news24.com

He threatened to go on a hunger strike if his bail hearing was delayed any further. He was returned to Pollsmoor Prison until a bed becomes available at the Valkenberg Hospital, which is currently full.

The case has been postponed to February 11.

I presume the case will be postponed on February 11th given the circumstance that the person couldn't report to the ordered 30-day mental evaluation at a psychiatric hospital...

More excitement is guaranteed to happen in SA between now and who knows. I am curious though, how many 'domestic' terrorist charges had been laid in the past 5 years or so, must be a record. The Third-Force is as strong as the south-eastern wind.

 

[John Tempus]

If he is charged with terrorism he should just plead the "ANC" and he should go free and perhaps even get a few landmarks named after him.

He should claim he did it because those in charge of the country did not provide him with free stuff and a better life.

The ANC did it in the 60s and 70s, in the name of freedom and a better life, blowing up shopping malls and churches with innocent people in them and today they are all hailed as heroes.

This man did way less and is considered as a terrorist.

 

[RedViking]

Great work.

Can they now arrest those behind the ZUMA riots with the same amount of passion and efficiency?

One man burns a building. He is a terrorist.
1 000's burns a country. They are protestors.

 

[Thor]

That man's life is now destroyed.

An innocent man

 

[Solarion]

Every now and then someone comes along and does something which highlights just how unequal a society is when politicians have have gotten away with doing much, much worse with little more than a rap on the knuckles.

Where is Dudu Myeni today? She destroyed a national airline and has still not been charged. Jacob Zuma? The list goes on.

We thank this guy, not for what he did, but for exposing the rot that exists in SA.

 

[TheChamp]

Every now and then someone comes along and does something which highlights just how unequal a society is when politicians have have gotten away with doing much, much worse with little more than a rap on the knuckles.

Where is Dudu Myeni today? She destroyed a national airline and has still not been charged. Jacob Zuma? The list goes on.

We thank this guy, not for what he did, but for exposing the rot that exists in SA.

That does not make sense at all, you are just thanking him for allegedly doing something that you feel punishes the ANC government, which is a shame because parliament does not belong to the ANC. Criminal actions should never be excused, coming up with silly reasons is just not good enough.

 

[Solarion]

That does not make sense at all, you are just thanking him for allegedly doing something that you feel punishes the ANC government, which is a shame because parliament does not belong to the ANC. Criminal actions should never be excused, coming up with silly reasons is just not good enough.

I did not thank him for punishing the ANC. I thanked him for highlighting the inequality of the law when dealing with connected political elites vs the rest of the country.

Also I did not excuse his actions at all or make up silly reasons to justify them. I thanked him for the consequences of his actions in highlighting that inequality.

It is 6 AM in the morning and I may only be half awake but I can still tell when someone is trying to put words in my mouth so he can shift responsibility from himself for his voting choices.

 

[TheChamp]

I did not thank him for punishing the ANC. I thanked him for highlighting the inequality of the law when dealing with connected political elites vs the rest of the country.

Also I did not excuse his actions at all or make up silly reasons to justify them. I thanked him for the consequences of his actions in highlighting that inequality.

It is 6 AM in the morning and I may only be half awake but I can still tell when someone is trying to put words in my mouth so he can shift responsibility from himself for his voting choices.

What I said to the other one, I have never seen anyone thanking an alleged rapist or a murderer for highlighting the inequality in the law if they are speedily arrested, did you thank the July rioters who were arrested for almost burning the whole KZN down? it has never ever happened which leads me to believe that there is something special to you about this guy.

Seriously since when is burning something down a good way to highlight inequalities, and if that's not bad enough you are even saying Dankie?

It does not make sense even for one minute. Sorry for bothering you at 6am in the morning.

 

[ShaunSA]

Of course I do, your great minds is what attracted me to the forum.

And it's our lesser minds keeping you here?

 

[Solarion]

What I said to the other one, I have never seen anyone thanking an alleged rapist or a murderer for highlighting the inequality in the law if they are speedily arrested, did you thank the July rioters who were arrested for almost burning the whole KZN down? it has never ever happened which leads me to believe that there is something special to you about this guy.

Seriously since when is burning something down a good way to highlight inequalities, and if that's not bad enough you are even saying Dankie?

It does not make sense even for one minute. Sorry for bothering you at 6am in the morning.

The treason charge makes him special. He was just another looter and burner before that, same as the July rioters. Once he got charged with treason it opened up a whole can of questions. Why does JZ sit at home playing with books right now? Why has this bloke been charged with treason while others have not, including those looters and state plunderers. Because of this one guy's actions almost everyone has sat up and said "Hey wait a minute what is actually going on here."

I did not say Dankie I said thank you. I did notice that subtle jab though. Interesting.

 

[Ponderer]

The treason charge makes him special. He was just another looter and burner before that, same as the July rioters. Once he got charged with treason it opened up a whole can of questions. Why does JZ sit at home playing with books right now? Why has this bloke been charged with treason while others have not, including those looters and state plunderers. Because of this one guy's actions almost everyone has sat up and said "Hey wait a minute what is actually going on here."

Yeah - something is up - something else is going on here.
At first, I thought it (the fire) was an accident (not intentional).

I'm not so sure about it now - I'm starting to think that there is a real possibility that the fire was intentionally started.