Broadband Report - What do you think?

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bb_matt

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Look guys, this is really going way too far !

I did as noone suggested and went for a beer (good call mate, altho I usually do on a friday ! :D) - but now I'm back and suitably refreshed, it seems glaringly obvious to me that rpm never meant the broadband guide to be taken as any kind of defacto standard !

It's a guide !

It's as subjective as saying eating at Browns in rivonia is better than eating at McDonalds, Greyston drive !

The ONLY people who have a problem here are the iBurst users that are getting fantastic service.

That's fair enough - I can understand why you'd be peeved (to some degree)

As I said earlier in this thread - IT's A GUIDE.

Are you going to get huffy about "The Ultimate Guide to Paris" when you end up getting mugged at a place they indicate is "a safe haven for tourists" ?

Will you write to your local MP when "The Guide to Good Haircuts" directs you to a place that supposed to make you look like the second coming of haircuts, but results in dogs trying to hump your head ?

No, of course not.

So give it a break already and have another drink/smoke/carrot (or all three combined)

And noone, BOOBIES !
 

Daveogg

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bb mat. If you were a broadband newbie looking to take the leap onto broadband and were presented with the Official Myadsl Broadband guide would it influence your decision?

Secondly Telkom has already used it too suit its own purposes previously.

So if you are going to do this kind of research and promote it as the official mouthpiece of this forum you had better get it right.
 

bb_matt

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Daveogg said:
bb mat. If you were a broadband newbie looking to take the leap onto broadband and were presented with the Official Myadsl Broadband guide would it influence your decision?

Secondly Telkom has already used it too suit its own purposes previously.

So if you are going to do this kind of research and promote it as the official mouthpiece of this forum you had better get it right.
Oh for goodness sake Dave, rpm is doing the best he can !

No I wouldn't just take the guide as the only area to look at when looking for broadband services...

BUT

It's a DAMN SIDE BETTER than relying on the advertising of all the companies involved in the test !

I'm with the Yes sayers here, not the Nay sayers, who just have absolutely NO vision.

Have you read none of the postive aspects about this guide ?

The fact that it's still in it's infancy, the fact that rpm KNOWS that participation should be higher - for fsck sake, if you really want the guide to be more accurate, get everyone you know to participate !

There's nothing worse than people whining about what is to all intents and purposes, volunteer based ! - Yes, YOU can get involved ! YOU have the say.

It's a no brainer really.
 
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Daveogg

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bb mat when reading any research one has to answer two questions what is the quality of the research and what are the results. To asses the quality of the research one needs to know about the methodology and any confounding variables. With this report as presented one cannot asses the quality of the research as the methodology is not available.

What is a no brainer is too accept results without questioning their validity.

Now i am not trying to dish RPM, i understand that he is doing the best with the resources available however the process is flawed and if the vision is too acurately compare the available offerings then these flaws need to be debated.
 

Gatecrasher

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Children, behave!

106 posts in 18 hours. It might "only" be a guide, but in the context of why we are all here it IS important.

There is a thread on the announcements page seeking to make the report the very centrepiece of the site.

What was the winning slogan? MyADSL: The broadband authority.

But to be an authority you need to have best quality information you can lay your hands on.

rpm put a lot of effort into his "only a guide". So why not make it as authoratitive as possible? Why not make it information people can rely on.

The report as it stands in relation to Iburst is pathetic and clearly either the quality or the weighting of the data collected was sadly lacking. That has the potential to reflect badly on the credibility of the report and also on this site.

Whether that is because far too much weight was given to a vast number of poor results from one or two disgruntled users, or because the overall pool of users was just too small doesn't really matter.

As rpm himself posted on the 14th March, the highest session speeds acheived in the testing was 777kbps, single threaded, international from... Iburst! Where does that appear in his report? Nowhere. And how did that manage to get whittled down do a 120kbps service, slower than 3G and MW256? Sorry, but that just goes way beyond comprehension! :eek:

For the findings to be credible they have to reflect the experience of the average user, and not necessarily the average item of data volunteered.

As the person compiling the report, rpm, and nobody else has the responsibility to ensure that his data collection methods are fair, unbiased and respresentative.

It is not the responsibility of users to ensure their data is included. Imagine if this was an election poll to find the next US president, voters wouldn't be phoning up Gallop to make sure their opinion is included. No, Gallop would be getting opinions from a representative sample. If gallop fails to ensure a representative sample, then its findings are meaningless.

I have a lot of symphathy for rpm. He is doing a great job, and this is not a personal criticism. But on the basis of the tiny sample and the strange weightings given to the data, and the contradictions within his own findings, he is in no position to make the derisory and derogatory statements that he makes in the report in relation to the Iburst product. He is seriously misinforming his readers.
 
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bb_matt

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Dave, do your own research and then come back and complain.
rpm has been through this with us already and was open from the start.

I'll defend the guy to that last, because he has that thing called Integrity.
He's making a stand, trying to make a difference.
He has the start of a broadband test, developed in his own and others spare time and all you can do is join the chorus of nay-sayers.

What are YOU doing ?

Your hammering his and others efforts.

I'm really saddened by the attitude of a few people in this thread - they are most certainly not team players and nor are they logical thinkers.

I can only conclude they have alterior motives.
 

slimothy

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what am I doing? well lets see I am implementing a speed test of my own for iburst users, it is web based so will work on any platform it attempts to gather specific infomation from the user and it can run forever and the statistical information will be calculated live to hopefully give a complete picture of where/when the service is good or bad. it'll be up tomorrow
 

bb_matt

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I am implementing a speed test of my own for iburst users
Only for iBurst users ?

So we would only get results from iBurst users based on a test only for iBurst users - now that's useful - nice one !
 

Daveogg

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bb mat I am criticising his research not him. I critically review research everyday believe me its important in fact it may one day save your life.

As i said before i would like to open the debate on how this should be done.

A few points for everyone to think on.

What exactly are we comparing here. WBS publish a coverage map implying certain area should expect full speed and other area will experience degraded performance. Would it be fair for me to subscribe to iburst and then conduct tests from a degraded area without that being stated.

Are we comparing the average ibursts experience with other broadband offerings or are we only going to comparing users who test from areas that iburst claim to have full speed coverage?
 

Daveogg

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Slim maybe you have a point here. Is it possible to develop a system where a user can log a geographical position and then get a speed test done. We can then tell others thinking of getting iburst where it works and where it is failing.
 

bb_matt

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Daveogg, you'll find that it was an open test if you look through the posts in various sections of this forum prior to our current date.

As far as I can see, the iBurst section of this website is the most complaining and angry.
 

slimothy

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Daveogg said:
Slim maybe you have a point here. Is it possible to develop a system where a user can log a geographical position and then get a speed test done. We can then tell others thinking of getting iburst where it works and where it is failing.
Yepp thats exactly what I'm aiming for, I will be using the existing maps at iburst.co.za and using my dynamic image skills with php to do some dynamic reporting.

Matt, its iburst only because this is the iburst forum,maybe in the future if I could get some information from you adsl users I could implement somethign with ADSL and then do comparitive studies, but its starting with iburst and the point would be to build an overall picture of iburst in south africa, which is valuable for new users especially but also for people on iBurst now.

I don't appreciate the "now that's useful - nice one !" comment, basically I was told if I had better methods I should share them, so I offered my code, no one took me up on it, then I was asked what I am doing, so I will show you how I would have done it, while making it usefull to people from the iBurst point of view (seeing as thats what I use) and if someone from myadsl see's it and wants the code, they're free to it. If nothign else I believe my little test will prove that the iburst demographic wasn't represented well and that there are alot more happy iBurst subscribers than the pecimists would have us believe.
 

Gatecrasher

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bb_matt said:
I'll defend the guy to that last, because he has that thing called Integrity.
He's making a stand, trying to make a difference.
He has the start of a broadband test, developed in his own and others spare time and all you can do is join the chorus of nay-sayers.
He's a great guy, doing a great job. But he's not the pope. He is not an untouchable. He can make mistakes. We can all make mistakes. Just because he is a great guy, doesn't mean we must all surrender our objectivity.
What are YOU doing ?
Your hammering his and others efforts.
Rubbish. This is a healthy debate in which the main aim is to enhance his efforts.
I'm really saddened by the attitude of a few people in this thread - they are most certainly not team players and nor are they logical thinkers. I can only conclude they have alterior motives.
What motives? Spit it out! That is just paranoia beyond belief. Why do always have to bring debates down to personal insults? It detracts from the very good arguments you often make.
 

jmn

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Daveogg said:
WBS publish a coverage map implying certain area should expect full speed and other area will experience degraded performance.
Actually burst rates up to 1 mbps. I wish I could expect full speed full time.

BTW, just had 640 kbps average over a 7 hour period continuous download (download size divided by time, 3 - 6 threads running) plus TCP/IQ test running every 2 hours and general surfing and mail checking during that time.
 

slimothy

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i think thats our point exactly, you can't expect 1mbit, but I can expect 1mbit or over anytime of day, thats why we need to draw a better picture as far as iburst is concerned,
 

jmn

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slimothy said:
i think thats our point exactly, you can't expect 1mbit, but I can expect 1mbit or over anytime of day, thats why we need to draw a better picture as far as iburst is concerned,
An 'official statement' from WBS as far as reasonable speed averages with reference to the map codings would have been helpful... Or is this perhaps the purpose of the test phase? Along with capacity handling?
 

Daveogg

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Yup and just for fun set flashget to single thread to d/l the proggie. Timed it at 59 sec and its just on 5MB so if my maths is correct that is an ave of 80KB/s
 
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