Building regulations: what constitutes an alteration (want to enclose a paito)

[ebendl]

Hey!

So I want to enclose my patio (which has a built-in-braai) with sliding/folding aluminium doors. This will be on three side. I want to get the type of doors that you can open up all the way or close them all the way, with safety glass.

According to my body corporate, this requires Tshwane Municipality approval and thus I need to submit plans etc and get approval before they will approve it.

Now, what constitutes a big enough alteration/change to require this? The reason why I ask is that somebody "scared" them and said we must get municipality approval and now they believe it is true. I want some hard evidence before I start this long, painful road.

Is there anybody in Tshwane (municipality, architects?) who I can contact to ask for advice?

 

[AlphaBravo]

I'm no expert but I went through this before with Tswane. What the dude told me was that if the roof of the area you want to enclose is shown on your existing building plans and you wont alterate the roof then you may enclose without aproving your plans again.

If you dig new foundations they have to be inspected though.

 

[ebendl]

I'm no expert but I went through this before with Tswane. What the dude told me was that if the roof of the area you want to enclose is shown on your existing building plans and you wont alterate the roof then you may enclose without aproving your plans again.

If you dig new foundations they have to be inspected though.

Doing none of the sort - the patio is already tiled and has a ceiling. I have the plans too.

Any contact number for "the dude"? Or where can I find him?

Thanks for the info!

 

[FlashSA]

I am in the aluminium industry. You could build an entire room out of glass and aluminium and not need plans, so enclosing an existing patio with stackaway doors is perfectly legal without plans.......

 

[Arthur]

There are two considerations:

1. Legal requirement. AlphaBravo and flashsa have already summarized this.

2. Contractual requirement. Check your Agreement. It is possible that you have agreed to submit plans to the local authority even though not required by law.

 

[froot]

I'm no expert but I went through this before with Tswane. What the dude told me was that if the roof of the area you want to enclose is shown on your existing building plans and you wont alterate the roof then you may enclose without aproving your plans again.

If you dig new foundations they have to be inspected though.

Our houseplan showed our patio as an enclosed space so we didn't have to apply for building plans to get it closed up. If this is not the case on your houseplan then you need approval, if you want to turn it into "indoors", or build anything above 6ft.

 

[ebendl]

I am in the aluminium industry. You could build an entire room out of glass and aluminium and not need plans, so enclosing an existing patio with stackaway doors is perfectly legal without plans.......

While this is great, my complex won't allow me to build without municipality approval. Any law or something where this is set out which I can point them to?

And what about SANS 10400 part XA and SANS 204? As far as I understand any new additions are supposed to comply with the energy efficiency laws (which was written into the law in 2011).

 

[FlashSA]

If prior municipal approval is written in your complex's rules and regulations then there is no way around it because your property is inside their controlled area and so you are bound by their rules.

With regards to U-Values - having solar controlled glass installed in those doors will increase your project costs substantially. Easy way around it is that it sounds like you will not actually be building with foundations and brick/mortar so there is no need for a municipal inspector to visit your site on completion and issue an occupational certificate as the property is already occupied. So you can fit whatever glass you want, as long as saftey glazing rules are applied ( safety glass in all doors and panes closer than 500mm to the ground)

 

[ToxicBunny]

While this is great, my complex won't allow me to build without municipality approval. Any law or something where this is set out which I can point them to?

And what about SANS 10400 part XA and SANS 204? As far as I understand any new additions are supposed to comply with the energy efficiency laws (which was written into the law in 2011).

You are going to run into an issue with the energy efficiency laws is my guess, so you will need special types of glass etc etc...

 

[FlashSA]

You are going to run into an issue with the energy efficiency laws is my guess, so you will need special types of glass etc etc...

Only if a building inspector is required to visit for an occupational certificate.

Not applicable for hack and bash renovations. We rip out all windows and doors for clients all the time and replace with aluminium and clear glass. Even 10 metre stackaway doors with clear glass is no problem.

But for new houses: the costs skyrocket because the municipal inspectors will only issue the certificate if correct UV control measures are in place.

Global-warming / energy crisis rubbish!!

 

[FlashSA]

As an aside, in the next few years it is going to become SO expensive to build a house from scratch due to all of the new energy laws, that buying old and renovation will become the new big thing!

Pending (some active) laws for new houses include compulsory: solar water heating / UV controlled glass based on total glass exposure area / ceiling insulation (think pink). Next will be double glazing of window panes like the EU. That is insane money per square metre!!

 

[ebendl]

As an aside, in the next few years it is going to become SO expensive to build a house from scratch due to all of the new energy laws, that buying old and renovation will become the new big thing!

Pending (some active) laws for new houses include compulsory: solar water heating / UV controlled glass based on total glass exposure area / ceiling insulation (think pink). Next will be double glazing of window panes like the EU. That is insane money per square metre!!

I hear you and I was quite shocked when I started reading up on this. Pain is, even the example they have for the energy efficiency calculations are NOT for a NEW house but the addition to an existing one.

I consulted an architect friend and he said the councils are still trying to sort out how to handle existing houses and renovations / additions. It sounds like in some cases they are only concerned with say the renovation / work / addition being done (i.e. in my case, my patio) and the rest may be left as is. In other cases, they look at the plans as a whole and then, if you want to do additions, you might end up having to double-glaze your whole house.

Having traveled in Europe before, I must say the double glazing is nice as the houses are much warmer. But yeah, gonna be years before you get enough competition in the market to drive costs down.

What constitutes "minor" work? Seems as if the laws have some in them and this would only require me to gain permission from the building council without having to submit plans (And thus do the energy calculations)? This would satisfy my body corporate (I guess).

 

[FlashSA]

I would say minor work would be defined as anything that does not require foundations. So you can knock a hole in your bedroom wall and put in a sliding door and you do not need to have plans passed for it.

It sounds like your homeowners rules and regulations are a bit anal, but it is probably for the best to prevent some owner from going mental and making their place look terrible with extra additions.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Only if a building inspector is required to visit for an occupational certificate.

Not applicable for hack and bash renovations. We rip out all windows and doors for clients all the time and replace with aluminium and clear glass. Even 10 metre stackaway doors with clear glass is no problem.

But for new houses: the costs skyrocket because the municipal inspectors will only issue the certificate if correct UV control measures are in place.

Global-warming / energy crisis rubbish!!

Fair enough.

I'm purely talking from a Durban municipality point of view, and they're anal. Plans for everything, and the glazing requirements are insane if you breach the margins of whats allowable with plain clear glass.

I'm putting in a nearly 5m stack away door, and i've had to shrink a window or two just to keep the entire glazing in spec so that I don't end up spending R50k+ on a single bloody door.

 

[ebendl]

Fair enough.

I'm purely talking from a Durban municipality point of view, and they're anal. Plans for everything, and the glazing requirements are insane if you breach the margins of whats allowable with plain clear glass.

I'm putting in a nearly 5m stack away door, and i've had to shrink a window or two just to keep the entire glazing in spec so that I don't end up spending R50k+ on a single bloody door.

This is quickly where my project is heading. I'm gonna phone the municipality on Monday to ask if I need to do plans / energy calculations for these. PAin is, I need something from the municipality on writing at least to satisfy my body corporate.

Otherwise I'll have to close the patio with sail (not really looking forward to it, although it will be much cheaper).

 

[ebendl]

Just for interest's sake, see comment I received from the guys at BuildingRegulations.co.za:

http://www.buildingregulations.co.za/minor-building-work/comment-page-3/#comment-20754

 

[ToxicBunny]

You could always do what I did..

I am just adding a sliding door to my one bedroom for now, and found out i needed to do plans for the change, so I spent a few months thinking things over and planning, and just had massive renovations (that I was only going to do in a year or two) added to the plans, so I only have to spend the money once.

 

[ebendl]

You could always do what I did..

I am just adding a sliding door to my one bedroom for now, and found out i needed to do plans for the change, so I spent a few months thinking things over and planning, and just had massive renovations (that I was only going to do in a year or two) added to the plans, so I only have to spend the money once.

Sounds like a good plan. Our plan was to enclose the patio now to create another living space (and to move our dining room table there) since my wife is pregnant with our second one and we'll need the room that is currently my study. But in a year or two's time we'll move in any case - so this was enough change to live comfortably for two or so more years.

Did you have to comply to the new energy efficiency regulations?

 

[ToxicBunny]

Sounds like a good plan. Our plan was to enclose the patio now to create another living space (and to move our dining room table there) since my wife is pregnant with our second one and we'll need the room that is currently my study. But in a year or two's time we'll move in any case - so this was enough change to live comfortably for two or so more years.

Did you have to comply to the new energy efficiency regulations?

Yup.

Durbs is very sticky, I actually had to shrink a window or two just so that I could have my nice big 4.5m stack away door and stay inside the limits for standard glass.

 

[ebendl]

And? Is you place warmer in winter and cooler in summer? Or was it all a big waste of your time?