Buying a new house? BEWARE,Low-cost houses for elite suburbs

[ajak]

Low-cost houses for elite suburbs
06 Sep 2004 - Sunday Times -
Intro
Housing Director-General Mpumi Nxumalo revealed that, from April next year, the pace of housing delivery would be virtually doubled
By Brendan Boyle and Rowan Philp
This week, Housing Director-General Mpumi Nxumalo revealed that, from April next year, the pace of housing delivery would be virtually doubled and thousands more be made eligible for subsidies, to address a backlog of some 2.4 million homes.
In a revolutionary move to end apartheid urban planning, renovated apartment buildings and new multi-storey complexes will be built near established suburbs, where families from different income groups will live together.
"The primary objective is to build a non-racial society," said Nxumalo.
Nxumalo said the 10-year programme to end shack living, announced this week, would seek to integrate rich and poor communities, without undermining the value or security of property owned by the wealthy.
"Our mandate from President [Thabo] Mbeki when we met him to explain the plan was to demonstrate that we can build successfully integrated non-racial communities," she said.
Citing Sandton in Gauteng as one example, she said apartheid had created an artificial division between generally white affluent areas and generally black poor areas.
"The micro-economy of Sandton needs gardeners, shop assistants and office workers as well as millionaires to keep going and there is no reason why those people should have to travel for hours every day to get to work.
http://www.eprop.co.za/news/article.aspx?idArticle=4428
Objections to project pile up

GAUTENG – Dunnottar and Sharon Park residents have submitted almost 1 800 objections to the John Dube Village RDP housing development.
Acting on behalf of residents, the Dunnottar and Sharon Park residents’ committee members handed over about 1 770 objection letters to Peter Behrmann, acting area development planner at the Nigel Town Council.
During numerous meetings, residents have expressed their anger over the fact that they have been kept in the dark over the development which will see more than 1 000 RDP houses being built about 700m from the suburb.
“We received an overwhelming response from residents objecting to the RDP development, which is the first phase of the Kwatsaduza local spatial development framework,” said Tony Dodd, chairman of the Sharon Park Residents’ Association.
He said the committees were limited to 15 days in obtaining objections, saying the reason for this was the metro’s failure to address concerned residents on September 5.
The objections to the development will be considered at a Development Tribunal and referred to the townships board.
“Based on the outcome, the committees will endeavour to pursue other legal alternatives available,” said Dodd.

http://www.citizen.co.za/index/article.aspx?pDesc=24891,1,22

 

[pupa]

........"Our mandate from President [Thabo] Mbeki when we met him to explain the plan was to demonstrate that we can build successfully integrated non-racial communities," she said.
Citing Sandton in Gauteng as one example, she said apartheid had created an artificial division between generally white affluent areas and generally black poor areas.
"The micro-economy of Sandton needs gardeners, shop assistants and office workers as well as millionaires to keep going and there is no reason why those people should have to travel for hours every day to get to work.

Soon she will force the millionaires to take in the poor sods! Low intellect mindset at play again!

"The primary objective is to build a non-racial society," said Nxumalo.
Nxumalo said the 10-year programme to end shack living, announced this week, would seek to integrate rich and poor communities, without undermining the value or security of property owned by the wealthy.

Racism come from the inside and no development will alter or change the alter ego of the "racist". The human race is naturally tending to mix with others of their own kind! The world over!
Another low int elect living in a dream world. How can you achieve what she stated above? Shame we have to pity these expert opinions as made by Nxumalo as she does not know what she is talking about. Wonder if she will build a cape flats housing project close to Mbeki's new posh residence or will she deliberately build it where tensions will mount!

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

This person clearly has no idea what the hell she is talking about. It's common sense that housing prices will go down if it is near poorer residences. There is plenty of free open land to build the houses on, but NO...they have to build next to wealthy suburbs.

And the crime rate not escalating in these areas? Give me a break.

 

[nocilah]

"The primary objective is to build a non-racial society," said Nxumalo.

once again - african logic.

is he implying that ALL black people are poor? If so buy integrating poor people with rich people is somehow also integrating colour - is it me or is Nxumalo el stupido like every other anc official in this country.

retard!

 

[BTTB]

Temporary Housing

Make sure you never allow Temporary Housing in your area no matter what! Even if Officials and/or Politicians tell you it will be merely a temporary arrangement until they can provide formal housing, they will undoubtedly be lying when they say it will be "Temporary".

The residents in our area were led up the Garden Path by these same people about 10 years ago when The Officials and The Politicians pushed a small Squatter Camp of about 80 or 90 Wendy Houses into our area.
Many meetings were held and much debate raged for months on end about the terms of this arrangement, only to be forgotten now 10 years later.
Not even 1 year past and they "forgot". The moment the Wendy Houses were erected The Politicians forgot these people, except for every few years when it was Election Time and you would notice a few of these Squatters walking around with Tee Shirts proclaiming allegiance to their Political Party.

The arrangements 10 years ago were supposed to be clear and simple.
When the people moved out, the area would be flattened and returned to it's former status. A few other conditions were placed on the new Squatter Residents, like the easy payment of R20 a month at any Till Point of the Local Supermarket, a mere 3 minute walk from the encampment. Big Joke that was!

Anyway, more than half the people moved out after the first year or two, which The Council simply replaced with undesirable Rastafarian Drug Pushers and other people from some other area.

A complete and Total Mess up this turned out to be as now all we hear are demands from some new faces on how they require x,y and z.
They pay nothing and get everything. Water, electricity, toilets. For Free!
Now they will even be building a new tar road etc.
The list just goes on and on.
The Residents are paying for these people.
A small proportion of these squatters are still the original tenants, but the remaining lot are just mainly the low life's who want no better.
To stay there, pay nothing, get pissed, get goofed and sponge off the Residents. Also selling drugs to the teenagers in the area. It is a right royal f... up.

To add insult to injury. The encampment has overhead lighting which burns day and night irrespectively and even during the middle of the Power Crisis in Cape Town earlier this year, the Business District was cut off in 3 to 4 hour stretches while the Squatter Camp had no outages at all during this period and the lights at the encampment carried on burning in the middle of the day.
The shops lost a lot of perishables. I doubt the squatters were even oblivious to the fact we had load shedding?

Sorry for rambling on.
But as I said, do not get caught out by sweet talking Politicians and Officials promising a Temporary Housing Arrangement as they do not know the meaning of the word.
Make sure they build the units first before the people are brought in.
And if anyone invades the land phone Law Enforcement immediately.
If the Law Enforcement Officers renege on their duty then make a few calls to a higher authority, like The Mayor and if that is somehow not successful then get the community to make arrangements to remove them.

Be warned. With the PIE Act, the moment a squatter puts up 4 poles with a sheet of plastic over the top, puts a mattress down on the ground and lights a fire/stove to make something to eat, the Squatter is deemed to be a resident from that point.
Law Enforcement cannot help you and your Community will be paying to keep these people for who knows how long until Formal Housing is built for them and even then that will not be the end of the matter.
With 400000 families on the waiting list in The Western Cape, I can assure you that this will not be any time too soon.

 

[antowan]

I have to agree, this is the ***kest idea ever! Right up there with what is happening in Zim...

1. Around the globe rich and poor seperate naturally. South Africa is no exception, Apartheid or not.
2. This is insane in the face of the crime levels. You will put a lot of law abiding citizens in harms way with unpredictable outcomes when it comes to self defence. Who will most likely end up in court? The criminal or the "rich" guy defending his family? AND NO, NOT ALL POOR PEOPLE ARE CRIMINALS! DON'T GO THERE!
3. This will obviously impact artificially on property prices, regardless of what any politician says.

This sounds very much like an undercover socialist experiment the likes of which we found in ANIMAL FARM...

 

[Darth Garth]

1. Around the globe rich and poor seperate naturally. South Africa is no exception, Apartheid or not.

Antowan ... you are a DJ and not a social planner.

You and many others must have forgotten the mere simplest fact that Apartheid has artificially created our current suburbs and cities and totally ****ed up public transport system along strictly racial lines.

Do you really think people want to live in the Cape Flats and travel all the way to the industrial areas of Cape Town where their work are ???.

Get ****ing real.

And how rather ironic you should mention social experiments as you could not even recognize the terrible effects of the biggest one we had in this country staring you in the face.

Do you think this country is NORMAL ???.

 

[Tassidar]

Antowan ... you are a DJ and not a social planner.

You and many others must have forgotten the mere simplest fact that Apartheid has artificially created our current suburbs and cities and totally ****ed up public transport system along strictly racial lines.

Do you really think people want to live in the Cape Flats and travel all the way to the industrial areas of Cape Town where their work are ???.

Get ****ing real.

And how rather ironic you should mention social experiments as you could not even recognize the terrible effects of the biggest one we had in this country staring you in the face.

Do you think this country is NORMAL ???.

Tibby, are you a social planner? If not, then why should you claim any more highground on this argument than Antowan.

Secondly, you propose to replace one social experiment with another. Surely you can see the hypocracy of your argument.

I would like to point out that while the idea is noble, the implementation is terrible. Rich areas tend to have poor access to public transport, shopping centres and schools. As a result, poor people who live there tend to have a difficult time.

One of two consequences will occur as a result of this so-called 'racial integration':
(1) The rich people will slowly sell out and property prices will go down.
(2) The poor will be bought out, and will suddenly get more money than they know what to do with, which will therefore be duly squandered. This is the same as a massive social pay-out to a small section of the population, which is completely unfair and against the aims of government.

A similar situation to (2) has arisen close to where I live in Cape Town. This was as a result of an agreement between the private sector and squatters to use the land that the squatters were on, in return for providing the squatters with jobs and low-cost housing. Now the squatters are complianing that they are far from any access to schools, transport etc... and developers are looking to buy the low-cost housing from the squatters.

In short Social planning like this DOES NOT WORK

 

[neio]

The aim is to get the rich to become poorer, not for the poor to get richer.

 

[Getafix]

Antowan ... you are a DJ and not a social planner.

You and many others must have forgotten the mere simplest fact that Apartheid has artificially created our current suburbs and cities and totally ****ed up public transport system along strictly racial lines.

Do you really think people want to live in the Cape Flats and travel all the way to the industrial areas of Cape Town where their work are ???.

Get ****ing real.

And how rather ironic you should mention social experiments as you could not even recognize the terrible effects of the biggest one we had in this country staring you in the face.

Do you think this country is NORMAL ???.

Africa logic or african logic. The same thing. You have the same boring excuse: Apartheid. Over and over and over.

Tibby, why don't you use your own advice. If this place with it's whiteman's magic are so abnormal, go man. To the heart of your beloved Africa. Zim? Angola etc. Or can you actually do arithmatic. The whiteman has been chased away to long ago in the rest of Africa. All these countries are begging to stay alive. Except Botswana, which country made progress after colonialism? Apartheid my backside.

I will take sidebets on what will happen with this project. If 1000 houses are provided there will be 1500 families within a month and 2000 in two months. Shacks in the backyard. Crime will climb 5000% and it all will be blamed on apartheid before the sun sets tonight.

Any takers.

 

[Myrrdin]

06 Sep 2004 - Sunday Times -

Old news?

However, according to the council, the RDP houses’ occupants currently live near the site anyway,” said an estate agent.

Stated by an estate agent quoting the goverment so not sure how accurate the estate agent or the council's satement is.

You choose, squatter camp with shacks or RDP houses. I see no problem here.

 

[Syndyre]

Antowan ... you are a DJ and not a social planner.

You and many others must have forgotten the mere simplest fact that Apartheid has artificially created our current suburbs and cities and totally ****ed up public transport system along strictly racial lines.

Do you really think people want to live in the Cape Flats and travel all the way to the industrial areas of Cape Town where their work are ???.

Get ****ing real.

And how rather ironic you should mention social experiments as you could not even recognize the terrible effects of the biggest one we had in this country staring you in the face.

Do you think this country is NORMAL ???.

Ok so to take your point, in most affluent areas I know there is no public transport. So how is putting low cost houses there going to help these people?

The reality all over the world is poorer people often have to travel longer distances because they can't afford premium land. Not saying things here are normal, but some issues are purely economic. And no its not normal to have shacks next to mansions in the suburbs, despite what you might think.

 

[Getafix]

You put the poor in.
Values drop.
Rich move out. Establish new plush suburb.
Poor move in. Another slum.

Example: Downtown Johannesburg. Who can remember Top of the Carlton?
Who will go there now after six in the evening? An easier question. Who will go there at all any time of the day?

The progress of our wonderful rainbow nation.

 

[ajak]

OLD...i dare say

Old news?



Stated by an estate agent quoting the goverment so not sure how accurate the estate agent or the council's satement is.

You choose, squatter camp with shacks or RDP houses. I see no problem here.

http://www.citizen.co.za/index/article.aspx?pDesc=24891,1,22

 

[Darth Garth]

Africa logic or african logic.

White denial at work again.

It must be really lovely to be imitating ostriches ... some of you are rather good at it since you and your ancestors have been doing it for the last few centuries.

But fortunately this govt and the majority of South African people will bypass those of you who want to cling to the past.

 

[icyrus]

White denial at work again.

It must be really lovely to be imitating ostriches ... some of you are rather good at it since you and your ancestors have been doing it for the last few centuries.

But fortunately this govt and the majority of South African people will bypass those of you who want to cling to the past.

Man, don't you ever get tired of living under that bridge?

 

[Getafix]

White denial at work again.

It must be really lovely to be imitating ostriches ... some of you are rather good at it since you and your ancestors have been doing it for the last few centuries.

But fortunately this govt and the majority of South African people will bypass those of you who want to cling to the past.

Tibby, right on!

No strong nation, tribe or religion can be oppressed. You guys scream to high heavens how you were oppressed. By ostriches. Says a lot doesn't it?

The majority and the govt.... Correct again. Downtown Jhb. Highpoint centre in Hillbrow. These were places where youngsters went over weekends having a ball with the only worry was how long your pocket money was going to last.

Now the majority and the govt pulled it all down to their level that nobody is sure whether he can come out of there alive. Forget about worries about your car or cellphone.

You want to move into the posh neigborhoods. Objectively, which would you prefer. Hillbrow in the 70/80's, or the majority and govt's slum of today?

Viva! the slums

 

[Skeptik]

White denial at work again.

It must be really lovely to be imitating ostriches ... some of you are rather good at it since you and your ancestors have been doing it for the last few centuries.

But fortunately this govt and the majority of South African people will bypass those of you who want to cling to the past.

Oh, how predictable, Tibby! The ANC government clings so hard to the past themselves. They seem to get their very inspiration from referring to apartheid. Someone described them as being "obsessed with their negroid identity"!

This exercise in social engineering would have made Stalin proud. I see a disaster in the making. Once leafy plush suburbs will be transformed into townhouse sprawl, with washing lines everywhere, dirty streets, overflowing pipes, overgrown verges and kids playing in the streets.

The answer is to maintain these areas. Once people have better jobs and better paychecks, they will then be able to buy a nice property. Force is not needed, because transformation will happen anyway. The key is education, jobs and experience - in that order.

If the government really wants to build these housing complexes, do it in new places. Why ruin established communities - it sounds like spite to me!!

 

[evilspinach]

But fortunately this govt and the majority of South African people will bypass those of you who want to cling to the past.

All I hear is a pot having words with a kettle about its colour.

You and your rather apparent hatred are no better than the system you hate so much.

 

[Ekhaatvensters]

Antowan ... you are a DJ and not a social planner.

You and many others must have forgotten the mere simplest fact that Apartheid has artificially created our current suburbs and cities and totally ****ed up public transport system along strictly racial lines.

Do you really think people want to live in the Cape Flats and travel all the way to the industrial areas of Cape Town where their work are ???.

Get ****ing real.

And how rather ironic you should mention social experiments as you could not even recognize the terrible effects of the biggest one we had in this country staring you in the face.

Do you think this country is NORMAL ???.

While it wouldnt be a bad idea, you have to be carefull who you bring in. Unfortunatley chances are that now the rich people's children will not be able to walk to the shops or play outside because the low costs housing types are just rougher and used to living in the Cape Flats, im not shure how much of a great idea it could be. While this might work great with the adults and smaller children, im just saying from my viewpoint as an teenager, there will be k@k and the rich kids will loose out. Hardly fair when they really pay for the land and the services..

And the same might go for general living.. robbery muggings assualt could just become more common, im not quite shure if it would, but there might be serious fault with a system like this. You have to atleast acknowledge that and see why some people would oppose a system like that. Rich and poor (as seperate groups I mean) live together these days regardless of race, i.e in Bishops court you find coloureds and blacks, and the same in Southfield, not nearly a wealthy area. And in both areas whites of course, the thing is that these things do sort themselves out naturally, I know there is an imbalance to be adressed but maby its better to let things change naturally rather than forcing it.