Car not starting. Clicking noise.

SauRoNZA

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Normally you need to let the donor car charge the flat battery for a bit, unless you have a really good set of cables


Yeah I bought proper cables ages ago.

Also wire it properly and not battery to battery.

Started my dead Corsa, as in no lights on the dash, with my Golf (granted bigger car so higher amps I would imagine) many times in a matter of a few minutes.
 

Colin62

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There's a difference between jump starting a car with a flat battery and one with a dead cell in the battery. This one had a dead cell.
 

Magnum

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Why is jumping battery to battery wrong?

Is there a better way to do it?

You don't jump start cars ANYMORE!!!! Many fried ECU's and cluster gauges... Especially on VW MKIII and up.

Only engineers can jump start them nowadays.
 

SauRoNZA

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You don't jump start cars ANYMORE!!!! Many fried ECU's and cluster gauges... Especially on VW MKIII and up.





Only engineers can jump start them nowadays.



Only if you do it wrong and connect battery to battery like an idiot.



Or use a car with a monstrous battery on a much smaller car.



I'm with Sinbad. Crap.



Same kind of bull**** that says you can't change your own brakes because ABS...It has nothing to do with anything.

Every single car manual had jump start instructions...how do you explain that?
 

SauRoNZA

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Yeah special cases aside, people think because its electonic nobody can touch it.

Meanwhile these are closed systems with almost no "engineer" intervention required.
 

Jet-Fighter7700

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Only if you do it wrong and connect battery to battery like an idiot.



Or use a car with a monstrous battery on a much smaller car.



I'm with Sinbad. Crap.



Same kind of bull**** that says you can't change your own brakes because ABS...It has nothing to do with anything.

Every single car manual had jump start instructions...how do you explain that?

So jumping battery to battery is wrong?
I heard jumping battery to chassis is more correct, was always confused though, is it the black cable that's connected to the chassis?

Or the red one? Dont want a explosion, or fried electronics.....
 

Archer

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Only if you do it wrong and connect battery to battery like an idiot.

I'm very curious on this part... because from an electric point of view if you successfully jump the car, then no matter where you've connect you've connected to battery.

Reading several manufacturer manuals on the matter, some say you need to connect to the chassis, some say (eg Merc and BMW) connect straight to battery.

I know for a fact that battery to battery is what the really big boys do (ie trucks with much larger batteries), this is normal procedure at the factories.
 

Sinbad

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I've always done positive to positive on the batteries, negative on the donor car battery to ground on the recipient car

Turn on all lights and fans etc on both vehicles before disconnecting.
 

SauRoNZA

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I'm very curious on this part... because from an electric point of view if you successfully jump the car, then no matter where you've connect you've connected to battery.



Reading several manufacturer manuals on the matter, some say you need to connect to the chassis, some say (eg Merc and BMW) connect straight to battery.



I know for a fact that battery to battery is what the really big boys do (ie trucks with much larger batteries), this is normal procedure at the factories.


Battery to battery is pretty dangerous and almost always causes a massive arc/spark.

The correct way is through the chassis especially on modern cars with electronic fuel injection and such because it's that overload which fries them.

I'm no auto electrician so can't tell you why but I would presume connecting to the chassis you run the additional power through the whole car whereas battery to battery it goes to the other battery directly as if connected in series and that's what causes the problem as you have double the voltage now.
 

Sinbad

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Battery to battery is pretty dangerous and almost always causes a massive arc/spark.

The correct way is through the chassis especially on modern cars with electronic fuel injection and such because it's that overload which fries them.

I'm no auto electrician so can't tell you why but I would presume connecting to the chassis you run the additional power through the whole car whereas battery to battery it goes to the other battery directly as if connected in series and that's what causes the problem as you have double the voltage now.

Nah, it's purely about avoiding the spark being near when connecting or disconnecting the cable. Charging batteries give off hydrogen. You don't want a spark anywhere near it.

The connection between the chassis and battery is a very good one. If it were not, you'd have all kinds of electrical problems. There's no electrical difference between battery-battery and battery-chassis connection.
 

SauRoNZA

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Why then does it never spark when connecting to the chassis?

There must be some difference or change in drain of power that causes that.
 

Sinbad

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Why then does it never spark when connecting to the chassis?

There must be some difference or change in drain of power that causes that.

It does :p
But only when it's the last thing you connect, of course.
 

SauRoNZA

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All I find of worth is this...

"Ground" is just a code word which, in this case, refers to the "current return common" circuit node. There is a complete circuit because everything electrical in the car, such as the starter motor, also connects to ground in order to return current to the minus terminal of the battery through the ground. The car's chassis is used for this return network, and so the entire chassis is an extension of the minus terminal of the battery.

During jump-starting, we connect the boosting battery to ground rather than to the dead battery's - terminal for the simple reason that this provides a more direct return path to the good battery which is powering the dead car: the return current does not have to travel through the dead battery's minus terminal hookup cable and then to the jumper cable, but can go directly from the chassis ground to the jumper cable.

A more direct return path allows for better current flow and less voltage drop, like plugging a big appliance directly into an outlet, rather than via an extension cord.

In case you're also wondering why the plus jumper connections are made first, then the minuses. This is because there is no harm done if you leave the minus jumper dangling in the chassis of the car. Anything it accidentally touches is likely to be ground. If you connect both alligator clips on one end before connecting the other end, the other end is now live and you can accidentally touch the clips together to create a short circuit. If you connect the minuses/grounds first and then go to connect one of the pluses, you can create a short circuit, because the opposite side plus is probably dangling and touching something that is grounded.
 

Archer

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Battery to battery is pretty dangerous and almost always causes a massive arc/spark.

The correct way is through the chassis especially on modern cars with electronic fuel injection and such because it's that overload which fries them.

I'm no auto electrician so can't tell you why but I would presume connecting to the chassis you run the additional power through the whole car whereas battery to battery it goes to the other battery directly as if connected in series and that's what causes the problem as you have double the voltage now.

Nah, it's purely about avoiding the spark being near when connecting or disconnecting the cable. Charging batteries give off hydrogen. You don't want a spark anywhere near it.

The connection between the chassis and battery is a very good one. If it were not, you'd have all kinds of electrical problems. There's no electrical difference between battery-battery and battery-chassis connection.

And that spark will do what? If you're scared about the hydrogen, then you should have first noticed the dramatic physical damage to the battery, in which case you shouldn't be attempting a jump anyway.

As for overloading things, coming from someone who has designed and built several prototype trucks, no. Connecting to chassis gives you a near identical potential to any electronics as if you had connected straight to battery. And a proper jump connection gives you a parallel connection, so there is no chance of a double voltage, I don't understand where that comes from? At the end of the day the fact is that battery ground is directly connected to the chassis, so electrically it is the same point.
 

Archer

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All I find of worth is this...

So basically, connect to chassis to avoid less than 10 milli Ohm of resistance.

edit: in reality, you're probably adding more resistance connecting to chassis. Notice how chassis rarely sparks? That's because you're making a bad connection. Lots of resistance = no spark, little resistance from a good connection (eg battery terminals) = spark. When the manufacturer makes a ground connection they screw into the chassis by under sizing the bolt hole to ensure a really good connection, and that is usually before paint as well. You're coming along after paint
 
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