Carte Blanche takes on Telkom

BTTB · Aug 1, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> The presenter did not really pressed hard enough to get answers from the two Telkom officials.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think a second round from Carte Blanche should be more persistant. We need to give Telkom the opportunity to explain its position more clearly. Also go into detail about the prices more. Facts and figures. Telkom will come unstuck just from the hard cold facts. Carte Blanche did a good job. Perhaps the next time they could give it an extra 5 minutes. It was a bit short. I wonder if the general public could follow.

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

MyLowBandwidth · Aug 1, 2004

Clivedoubell, crap telecommunications policy has little or nothing to do with race. My best friend is black (and a bloody genius!!!!) and he is also sick and tired of Telkom and Sentech. I think the message Telkom is trying to send out is that Telkom is a committed South African company, committed to growth of our nation, committed to transformation and committed to establishing a new South Africa. (Of course all of it is a load of shaitte ask SBC shareholders.) Bearing this in mind, all of the "anti-Telkom conspirists" who were incidentally white also signifies that Telkom is not delivering on its promises because the vase majority of our population cant afford a friggin Telkom line...

Cape Town 128K 18% Tower 22 (Salt River) PPPoE, IPCop

BTTB · Aug 1, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Just watched the show. IMHO the message came out quite clear. I'm sorry to be hopelessly politically incorrect here, but I couldn't help but notice that all the particpants that were anti Telkom was light green, and all the participants that was pro Telkom was dark green. Maybe my tv's color balance is out of whack.
Go to Top of Page<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hmm I agree with this statement. I'm so sick and tired of this referal to shades of green in SA. The fact is Telkom cut off 2 million. Yes 2 million people because of their shade of green was incorrect.And I'm assuming they were some or other shade of green, but in actual fact their greenish colour was more related to their bloody lack of the right colour green and I mean the green colour of their pockets. Simple as that.
So who cant actually see Green properly? Telkom has a passion for Green and lots of it. 4.8 billion shades of flipping green. They must be so confused with all the green, they cant focus on any other colour besides green. Get the picture.

And the fact that most plants are green shares no relevance to the topic.[}

]

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

Mux · Aug 1, 2004

Firstly, well done on RPM and Mad and everyone else who helped in getting this publicity - GREAT job!!! Also, well done to Carte Blanche to eventually tackling the issue. CB can be the catalyst we need to influence the decision makers of this country.

Now one thing I don't grasp yet. If International bandwidth is so precious and expensive, why does Telkom "force" people to use the International bandwidth instead of local? My point, local small companies have to Host overseas to make it cost effective. It takes opportunities away from South Africa, cause capital outflow. By making use of overseas hosting companies, ALL visits for South African content sites cause International traffic - duh. Telkom is it's own biggest enemy.

You don't know what you don't know.
Mux

arf9999 · Aug 1, 2004

MyLB,

Well said. Race is not an issue. Poor policy is.

MW128, Tower 50 (Northpark Plaza), Signal:12%,S-N-L: 5, BER: 40%

gripen · Aug 1, 2004

But you must admit that BOTH of those things were pretty damn obvious. Perhaps thats not the situation but it was definitely made out to be that way.

As always the reporters never ask what you want them to ask. Oh well. Like I said to me family when asked: "what can we do about it?" I said "well, stay bent over".

Its all up to the famous democratic (cough*one sided*cough) government. Its not Telkom's fault really (chill, I hate them more than most) they are just milking their position waaay too much.

Rhino · Aug 1, 2004

Yeah, big up to mad and co for soing such a good job!

________________________________________________________________________________________
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zak2 · Aug 1, 2004

calm down ppl... one little 2nd rate insert will hardly bring telkom to its knees,ICASA can do squat, the government owns a major stake in telkom, and its become a cash cow.

do you ppl honestly think that they will budge on any issue????
They have a horde of yes men(sorry) persons who will deny anything to their death beds(whilst on the telkom payroll).
whilst the quest is noble, by tommorow the select few that have mnet will grumble and moan around the water cooler, and go back to work using the the same network that f&^^ks them over

boycoting is not an option, and forget the saviour of the second network........they aint coming anytime soon, and they wont be any better.......
so im afraid , time to grease up that ass, coz tommoroww its gonna hurt again

sorry to all but i (unfortunately) live in the real world, and have accepted that somethings will never change[

!]

BTTB · Aug 1, 2004

I don’t agree with you Zak.
We aren't finished yet. This is just one the battles of the War. Our cause is just and we have resolve. Their is many ways to skin a cat.

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

dorris · Aug 1, 2004

Another disagreeance, stirring the public a little bit, causes the masses to speak out, when that happens, government gets forced to put pressure on Telskum.

clivedoubell · Aug 2, 2004

MyLowBandwidth, I just made an observation that happens to be accurate. The fact that you construed it to be racist is really your problem. I also have black friends and co-workers which I respect and have a high regard for. On the other hand, I am quite sick and tired seeing people put in senior positions in companies just because they are on the right side of the Employment Equity equation, no matter if they are really qualified for the job. This policy is just as racist as apartheid ever was. The only difference in the two policies is the rationale that has changed, but it is still discrimination. The two Telkom people interviewed in the CB section fits into this category without any doubt in my mind. I wonder how you would feel if you lost your job to a person that was much less qualified than you in all respects, except the fact that he or she qualified for EE and you not. Well I have had this experience. Who do you think makes the crap telecommunications policy you are talking about? Yes, people in senior positions that are there just because of their EE status. If you think that by some magical means race has disappeared as an issue in SA then I must say I think you are wrong. The people doing the firing in the CB section on Telkom are mainly black, closely affiliated with the ANC government, and the people getting fired were mainly white. If this upsets your sensibilities then I am truly sorry but unfortunately this is a fact. Apart from this little point I tend to agree with the rest of what you said. Sorry to have brought up the race issue – if it could do it over I probably would not have.

Mux · Aug 2, 2004

There are very few companies that are not in business for the purpose of making many. The more they can make and get away with, the better for them. The only difference with that and Telkom is: Telkom is the sole provider of Telco infrastructure in the country, HEAVILY protected by law. No competition. Now obviously they can make as much as the law allow then - which are insane tariffs. The ONLY way out - DEREGULATE - bring in the opposition, competition. Provide each province with it's own license holders with inter-roaming agreements or something. ICASA can't do much plus it takes too long. We do not have years left. This country is getting raped from business opportunities by the thousands by the day. Why can other countries call cheaper to S.A. than S.A. to them? This is a major stubling block for job-creation.

You don't know what you don't know.
Mux

BTTB · Aug 2, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The people doing the firing in the CB section on Telkom are mainly black, closely affiliated with the ANC government, and the people getting fired were mainly white<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes I noticed that. This Solidarity Party must be their representatives.
I'm afraid if Telkom cannot find good reasons to retrench people, then they should rather drop the issue as it is getting a bit sick now. One the one hand making billions and the other getting rid of employees. Telkom had better mend it's ways. They are on shaky ground. If a legal team got hold of this, they could easily bring a court inderdict in against Telkom and push it up to the Constitutional Court. It is possible that some of the 30 000 odd people that Telkom got rid of already might still go for Telkom.
I hope it isn't necessary to go that far and Telkom catches a wake up call.

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

Turtle · Aug 2, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by clivedoubell
 I wonder how you would feel if you lost your job to a person that was much less qualified than you in all respects, except the fact that he or she qualified for EE and you not. Well I have had this experience.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I get so tired of hearing this. The fact though is that there are still plenty of job opportunities for qualified people - if you're *good*. I personally experience more demand for my skills than I have the time to supply, so there is effectively a job opportunity right there. All the whites I know who complain that they can't find a job "because of AA" are also the ones that barely scraped through University, never worked hard, copied assignments from others, and graduated somehow without knowing a virtual function from a fourier transform. I'm not saying that's you, but that's how it was in all cases I've seen so far. Also, particularly in the IT and engineering fields, the idea that so many whites can't find jobs simply because they're competing with AA candidates is suspect, because the percentage of black people actually studying in these fields is still pretty small. Jobs don't come on silver platters, they never have, no matter who you are .. the average black person still struggles much more to find a job in SA than the average white person .. people should stop whining and create their own opportunies. Think of an idea, build a product, try sell it. Countries like the USA didn't develop huge successful IT sectors by sitting around waiting to be given comfortable jobs. IT is a global market - every successful IT startup in e.g. the US represents an opportunity that a SAn missed because he/she was probably waiting for a job. And I know this may be an unpopular opinion, but I actually support AA, at least in principle. It may be a bit artificial, and the effects slow, but there is just no other way to give the less skilled masses a 'leg up' into the economy. We need to eradicate mass poverty in this country or we're all screwed, and AA is critical .. sure you get a lot of gravy train riders, but many also use the opportunity to better themselves, and can also then afford proper education for their kids in turn, who can then develop skills. Apartheid messed up this country, and we are the ones left to fix the mess, yet it's an opportunity to build something better.

BTTB · Aug 2, 2004

Education is partly to blame IMO.

Parents send their kids to School and then Varsity or Technikons, preparing the kids for the big wide world. Essentially all they are doing is teaching them how to work for other people. I say teach them how to work for themselves. In SA, a person who can start his own business has a better chance to succeed. And don't send the kids to the UK. SA is the place to be. You will see. The next generation of youngsters who know how to work for themselves will do well. Plus the weather is far better in SA.[8D]

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

Perdition · Aug 2, 2004

Indeed this isn't (and shouldn't) be a racism issue. I'm sure most of the people being "streamlined" by Telkom, black and white, already struggle to take care of their families with the meagre salaries they're getting. The last thing they need is to be told they're off the payroll cause big daddy wants to maximise profits.

While it's true that Telkom is a company and the purpose of a company is to make a profit the fact of the matter is that all companies are still owned and run by PEOPLE. It truly disturbs me that nobody in the upper echelons of Telkom (both managers and shareholders alike) have a social conscience and are only interested in a few extra percent profit.

South Africa is truly screwed if change does not happen this decade. It's very sad as this country could be offering so much to the rest of the world.... thanks Telkom.

clivedoubell · Aug 2, 2004

Turtle - Maybe you are tired of hearing it. I on the other hand am tired of living it.

I have a BSc in electronic Engineering and a MSc in Computer Science. And I didn't scrape through, I was many times at the top of the class. And I am "good" enough to have successfully run multimillion rand projects successfully locally and overseas. But the problem is my age and long time of experience. So I have to go for the more senior jobs. There where there are fewer opportunities. Just also where I have to compete with senior job EE's. I have been told directly by recruiters and employers that even though I qualify 200% for the job, I am Too Male, Too Old, and Too White. And I'm not the only one in this situation. So I'm afraid I don't agree with your statement at all. Just count yourself lucky that you are not in this position and give us poor whiners a break.

beyers · Aug 2, 2004

Zak, while I agree with you that it will not be easy, I think that there is a chance for success.

If you look at the broader picture: this forum, that started off as a little chat group, was the first attempt by consumers to stand up against the monopolistic monster. Since then a lot more people gained the courage to stand up as well.

MyADSL only had its first birthday a few days ago, and already it featured on Carte Blanche. This is a big step forward for consumers.

When consumers are united, it is a really strong force against a monopoly. Yes, the monopoly makes all the profits to be made in the market, but it will also carry all the losses in the market if consumers becomes active in their opposition to them.

Very small differences in consumer behaviour can have a major effect on Telkom profits. Hence we must keep increasing public awareness. If their profits are at stake, they will quickly respond. Maybe not as much as we want, but they will. And then the fight continues until their next concession.

If we don't fight them, who will?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by zak2
 calm down ppl... one little 2nd rate insert will hardly bring telkom to its knees,ICASA can do squat, the government owns a major stake in telkom, and its become a cash cow.

do you ppl honestly think that they will budge on any issue????
They have a horde of yes men(sorry) persons who will deny anything to their death beds(whilst on the telkom payroll).
whilst the quest is noble, by tommorow the select few that have mnet will grumble and moan around the water cooler, and go back to work using the the same network that f&^^ks them over

boycoting is not an option, and forget the saviour of the second network........they aint coming anytime soon, and they wont be any better.......
so im afraid , time to grease up that ass, coz tommoroww its gonna hurt again

sorry to all but i (unfortunately) live in the real world, and have accepted that somethings will never change[

!]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

hArTh · Aug 2, 2004

Personally, I think that technology will "rescue" us long before anything else does.

As soon as Wifi tech can do 2km+ on bog standard home equipment with omni antennas (Wimax in 2005?) people are going to set up mesh networking and start to share connections big time. At the momment 802.1g omnis only do about 400 m outdoor AFAIK which is still to low to really make mesh networking easy.

This should help resolve the local telecoms issues particularly with VOIP gaining popularity. International bandwidth is still a sticking point through ... two way sat using a foreign carrier?

-Information anarchist-
www.sentechhatesfreespeech.org.za
I support:
www.poopband.co.za
www.hellkom.co.za

hArTh · Aug 2, 2004

To give a specific example:

10 friends set up a network with R300 wimax cards. One has ADSL installed. They go through 10 accounts a month.

End cost: (R680 + 10*R250) / 10 = R318 pm ... not bad for what you are getting (in ZA terms).

Thats nearly 64k isdn speeds at "full contention".

-Information anarchist-
www.sentechhatesfreespeech.org.za
I support:
www.poopband.co.za
www.hellkom.co.za

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