Cash strapped Tongaat Hulett puts over 14-000 jobs on the line

[TheChamp]

Take me through the "How". Step by step please.

How they came to be united in their thieving acts?

 

[Pegasus]

I have no idea how much money was waved in front of them, and also whether there were structural issues within the entity and these "execs" were bleeding the entity for as much as possible before it collapsed or any of the pertinent details.

But what I am saying is that its considerably easier to co-opt people with a few extra million a year in their back pocket than you seem to think.

Sure, but such a large group from different business areas? You just need one to talk or screw up and you go down.

You work your ass off to get into a position that you will have needed to display integrity to get in the first place, and then you are willing to throw it away.

 

[Pegasus]

How they came to be united in their thieving acts?

Yes. Please leave BEE and race out of it.

 

[Ponderer]

So you haven’t actually worked with people at that level, or in corporate.

Just low level stupid eff type thinking from you.

Comrade/cadre logic.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Sure, but such a large group from different business areas? You just need one to talk or screw up and you go down.

You work your ass off to get into a position that you will have needed to display integrity to get in the first place, and then you are willing to throw it away.

Yes, a few extra million a year makes that choice very easy for some.

And C-Suites execs needing to displaying integrity to get into the position in the first place? Yeah no not really, ambition, yes. Willingness to fsck EVERYONE else over, yes... integrity not so much.

 

[Ponderer]

OK, listen properly now, your favourite people are corrupt, yes BEE made them do it but they are still corrupt.

Yes JZ.

 

[Pegasus]

Yes, a few extra million a year makes that choice very easy for some.

And C-Suites execs needing to displaying integrity to get into the position in the first place? Yeah no not really, ambition, yes. Willingness to fsck EVERYONE else over, yes... integrity not so much.

For some yes maybe. But you still have to approach them. What if they say no?

 

[TheChamp]

Yes. Please leave BEE and race out of it.

How am I supposed to know how a corrupt mind works? I am not corrupt.

 

[ToxicBunny]

For some yes maybe. But you still have to approach them. What if they say no?

Its not like you walk up to an exec and go "Do you want to help fabricate books and steal money?"

Its done subtly and over a long period to feel out the persons leanings, and once you're pretty sure (and you can engineer the situation where they have no choice).... you drag them in.

 

[Ponderer]

I have no idea how much money was waved in front of them, and also whether there were structural issues within the entity and these "execs" were bleeding the entity for as much as possible before it collapsed or any of the pertinent details.

But what I am saying is that its considerably easier to co-opt people with a few extra million a year in their back pocket than you seem to think.

Such wonderful insight you have.

 

[Pegasus]

How am I supposed to know how a corrupt mind works? I am not corrupt.

Well you have been responding to my posts where I am asking that question...

And yes, I know your reason is trolling. But I am ok with your trolling.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Such wonderful insight you have.

Go find a little corner to play with your playdough child....

 

[Pegasus]

Its not like you walk up to an exec and go "Do you want to help fabricate books and steal money?"

Its done subtly and over a long period to feel out the persons leanings, and once you're pretty sure (and you can engineer the situation where they have no choice).... you drag them in.

Yeah, its not like you just pop into someone's office and ask them to quickly backdate some signatures on documents.

There most likely is a lot more book cooking that happened then.

 

[R13...]

Its not like you walk up to an exec and go "Do you want to help fabricate books and steal money?"

Its done subtly and over a long period to feel out the persons leanings, and once you're pretty sure (and you can engineer the situation where they have no choice).... you drag them in.

I wonder on who cooked up this scheme? Was it the CEO, CFO? It was probably easy to convince the rest. Cook the books to make it seem the company is making profits which earns them bonuses. Then they also cash in on their long term incentives in share holdings when the company share price goes up due to the appearance of a company on the ascendance. They did make a crap load of money for sure.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Yeah, its not like you just pop into someone's office and ask them to quickly backdate some signatures on documents.

There most likely is a lot more book cooking that happened then.

This happened over a period of years and would have started off small, and grown in size to the point that it all folded on them... Their greed is ultimately what got them caught at the end of the day.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I wonder on who cooked up this scheme? Was it the CEO, CFO? It was probably easy to convince the rest. Cook the books to make it seem the company is making profits which earns them bonuses. Then they also cash in on their long term incentives in share holdings when the company share price goes up due to the appearance of a company on the ascendance. They did make a crap load of money for sure.

I would honestly guess that it probably started with a few of them..

Most of the C-suite guys I've interacted with may not necessarily like each other at the office, but they end up being friends/social circle connections outside of work.

 

[Pegasus]

This happened over a period of years and would have started off small, and grown in size to the point that it all folded on them... Their greed is ultimately what got them caught at the end of the day.

He even got Deloitte involved.

OPINION | A disgraced Deloitte must answer these 8 questions over Tongaat | Business

A former Deloitte partner has been charged with fraud following massive losses at Tongaat-Hulett. So far, the audit giant has not taken the high road, argues Simon Mantell.

www.news24.com

And the head of the Audit committee saw nothing.

Solidarity’s financial guild concerned about appointment of auditing watchdog - Solidariteit Beroepsnetwerke

By Reon Janse van Rensburg The Independent Regulatory Board for Auditors (Irba) serves as a watchdog that investigates auditing scandals and failures in corporate South Africa. It is an organisation that needs to act fiercely in the war against fraudulent activities and effective in its duty to...

gildes.solidariteit.co.za

They don't all have linkedins so can't see when they joined.

This would make a decent Netflix series. The type of show I'd watch.

 

[ToxicBunny]

He even got Deloitte involved.

OPINION | A disgraced Deloitte must answer these 8 questions over Tongaat | Business

A former Deloitte partner has been charged with fraud following massive losses at Tongaat-Hulett. So far, the audit giant has not taken the high road, argues Simon Mantell.

www.news24.com

And the head of the Audit committee saw nothing.

Solidarity’s financial guild concerned about appointment of auditing watchdog - Solidariteit Beroepsnetwerke

By Reon Janse van Rensburg The Independent Regulatory Board for Auditors (Irba) serves as a watchdog that investigates auditing scandals and failures in corporate South Africa. It is an organisation that needs to act fiercely in the war against fraudulent activities and effective in its duty to...

gildes.solidariteit.co.za

They don't all have linkedins so can't see when they joined.

This would make a decent Netflix series. The type of show I'd watch.

Unfortunately not hard to get the auditors roped in for a bit of extra cash, we've seen that all over SA with the State Capture thing.

 

[Mista_Mobsta]

They may be white but they are just like Koko, Molefe, Gama and the others, having enough money has never stopped anyone, of course no one ever does corruption thinking they will be caught.

The reputational risk is not a problem because everyone thinks they'll get away with it, since they are in the private sector, this could have easily been an accounting irregularity, all monies paid back and life goes on.

Just like with Steinhoff and that p03s Jooste, the ability to be corrupted by power and money isn't limited to a certain race/color/creed/religion/sex etc. I don't understand why certain people in such powerful positions aren't content with their multi-million Rand salaries every year and willingly engage in corrupt activities to live the extreme high life?? Seems they may have watched one too many episodes of Kardashians/Cribs/Real Housewives etc...

 

[Pegasus]

Unfortunately not hard to get the auditors roped in for a bit of extra cash, we've seen that all over SA with the State Capture thing.

Deloitte have been caught a few times in the last few years. There was huge kuk there with the Eskom one.

Deloitte pays R150m to settle Eskom contract dispute

The settlement is nearly three-quarters of the sum Eskom attempted to recoup, and will be made an order of court in due course

www.businesslive.co.za

You'd think they'd learnt.
Any dodgy thing there would have to be signed off by a director.

There own investigation found no wrongdoing however. So lets see what the NPA says.

Deloitte finds no evidence to support criminal case against former Tongaat auditor | Business

Deloitte says it has not discovered any evidence to support the criminal charges brought charges against its former partner who audited Tongaat Hulett.

www.news24.com